Cancun climate change summit: scientists call for rationing in developed world

rationingGlobal warming is now such a serious threat to mankind that climate change experts are calling for Second World War-style rationing in rich countries to bring down carbon emissions.

By Louise Gray

In a series of papers published by the Royal Society, physicists and chemists from some of world’s most respected scientific institutions, including Oxford University and the Met Office, agreed that current plans to tackle global warming are not enough.

Unless emissions are reduced dramatically in the next ten years the world is set to see temperatures rise by more than 4C (7.2F) by as early as the 2060s, causing floods, droughts and mass migration.

As the world meets in Cancun, Mexico for the latest round of United Nations talks on climate change, the influential academics called for much tougher measures to cut carbon emissions.

In one paper Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.

Read the rest at the London Telegraph.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Aww, who cares what happends in 2060, am I right?! To use GW’s excellent verbiage: “we’ll all be dead.” Let’s party like it’s 1999 !!! Wahoo!!

  • Hal Groar

    So we have to ration everything and developing countries don’t. This guy has lost his marbles. How is that going to change solar radiation? Now the prediction says 7 degrees by 2060. That has to be the highest I have heard it go…can’t this guy give us an even 10 degrees by 2020? Maybe the next eco-climate nazi will out predict this guy by 3 degrees and we can call it a day. If your going down this road might as well go big. That’s what Phil Jones would do.

    • Clearly, it’s not about climate. It’s about economics – specifically, communism.

      • Rob N. Hood

        That’s hilarious! It’s all about communism with you people. Wow. Crazy. Communism barely exists anymore (much like unions in this country). It has been soundly defeated by Capitalism. But hey that’s just Reality, a silly concept wasted on you people.

        What I’d like to know from you Dan is this. The MM is all about “traditional values” right? Well does that include “love thy neighbor”? How about “do unto others as you would have them do to you”? Are those included in your cult-like ideals? Or not? And if not, why? Just wondering.

        • Jerk A. Knot

          Hey Rob,
          “These are not the droids you are looking for.”
          “There is no such thing as communism anymore”
          “Unions are powerless”
          Your mind tricks only work on the feeble minded. Or the young naïve college students you recruit. The most populated nation in the world happens to be a Communist state. The fall of the Soviet Union left a vacuum in the world of communist that has been filled by the Socialist movement. Specifically the Anti-Colonial wing of socialism known as the Fabian Society which pretty much runs the UK. Granted it lost a great deal of power in the last election over there. Just like our Socialist leaning party was taken to the wood shed last month. What is it that modern Socialism and communism have in common…..They are both rooted in Marxist doctrine. In fact it is almost impossible to distinguish between the two today. I will also submit one very chilling fact. The ultra left wing of both parties is dominated by the Anarchists. They are the ones you see rioting at every WTO, G13, or (Put name here) world leader program. They make the ultra Right wing fanatics look like boy scouts. They are not a fringe group either they are embraced in the mainstream of both movement because they both need the instability there actions create.
          As for unions being a thing of the past you must be smoking dope dude. The AFL/CIO has over 12.2 million members. In the last election (a mid term) unions spent $171.5 million. They have received special treatment in the Healthcare Bill and the First person to make an office Call to the current POTUS was the Chairman of the SEIU…. Get a life dude and stop with the Jedi mind tricks.

          • Rob N. Hood

            Talk about mind-tricks and juvenile ideas… Jerk, you got it down to a science. (Wow, you can find and throw out a seemingly impressive number…what about the numbers of union workers compared to the entire working population? And also the way those numbers have fallen dramatically in the last 40 plus years?? And the fact that China and Russia are both becoming capitialistic, especially Russia?! And with time both will continue to become that way more and more, because that is the trend it is taking now and has been for some time).
            And Dan, that is a very canned response (below), as usual. But I know I cannot sway your hard-right minds on anything. And I’m tired of simply getting you all mad and ruining your echo-chamber. You think you are the best and brightest and nothing will change that, no amount of evidence, or even actual reality (good example is Jerk’s post above).

        • Dan McGrath

          Yes, well I don’t care much for being robbed and fleeced so I try to ensure government isn’t employed to those ends against others. It’s not neighborly to demand money from your neighbor’s pocket. There’s a big difference between freely giving to someone you know is in need who can be helped back on their feet with temporary financial support and being robbed by hired government thugs and creating helpless dependents for the sake of power.

          • Rob N. Hood

            Talk about being robbed: $170,200,000,000 is the low estimate for the cost of making and operating the Trident Submarines, each carrying the destrucive power of 4,000 Hiroshimas. How many college students could have their tuition covered if the US wasn’t wasting so much on the military? Etc. Etc. Etc.

  • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

    I’ll see your 7 and raise you 10! I predict a rise in global temperature of 100 degrees by midnight tonight! Lasting aproximattely 10 miliseconds at which point the global temperature will return to the same temperature it was three weeks ago at 64 minutes past 7:00…………

  • Eva Bernat

    Clearly, somebody forgot to tell these lunatics that human contribution to total carbon emissions is only 2.9%. Scientists have found that CO2s were 4.7 times higher in the Jurassic period… perhaps we should have taxed the dinosaurs!!!

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      Thanks Eva. But it is worse than you know, because they do know, they just don’t care! They want to control everything. Why should something silly like truth, or facts get in the way of that? It’s all about power, and control to these people. What better way is there to obtain your objectives than to convince people that the world is in jeapordy, and your policies are what will save it?

  • Rob N. Hood

    But Eva- we are not dinosaurs, plus they didn’t have cities to be sumerged under-water. And we all know how things turned out for them…! So what is your complaint again? That there are people that are worried about the welfare of the human race, their children and their children’s children, and YOURS too!? The HORROR !!

    • Oh. That makes sense… Because paleontologists have long maintained that all the dinos drowned to death. If they didn’t have cities (or factories and SUVs), what caused the warmth and higher CO2 levels to begin with?

      • Rob N. Hood

        Nope. That’s not what I meant. Why is it so difficult for you all to read and comprehend a sentence? If the ice cpas melt as predicted many areas that humans no inhabit will be underwater. That’s all. Maybe you could tear apart Eva’s childish post instead of mine? I know… you cannot do such a thing. I also know you don’t believe in climate warming theory. Once again I was being WAY to rational and logical, I apologize.

        Here’s something to consider…

        Ayn Rand’s extremist cult of the ego fits like a glove with unregulated capitalism because the moral high ground is defined by the acquisition of personal wealth without any obligation to society. As a result, Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” touted the “morality of rational self-interest” and what is basically an anarchistic vision of business and individual acquisition of money.

        Indeed, at least one powerful Wall Street cheerleader still on the scene – Alan Greenspan – became a Rand acolyte, according to The New York Times . “Mr. Greenspan met Rand when he was 25 and working as an economic forecaster. She was already renowned as the author of ‘The Fountainhead,’ a novel about an architect true to his principles. Mr. Greenspan had married a member of Rand’s inner circle, known as the Collective, that met every Saturday night in her New York apartment. Rand did not pay much attention to Mr. Greenspan until he began praising drafts of ‘Atlas,’ which she read aloud to her disciples, according to Jeff Britting, the archivist of Ayn Rand’s papers. He was attracted, Mr. Britting said, to ‘her moral defense of capitalism.'”

        And this was the guy (Greenspan) that ran our financial domain for MANY years- under Clinton too. He sure ain’t a Socialist or Communist… oh right, it’s Obama who’s the communist… except that Obama has hired the same type of right-wingers for his financial/economy team. Oh, but I know you Rightys are the under-dogs, the poor victims of a Socialistic conspriacy!! Change that to a mostly right-wing corporatist/military elitist conspiracy and I’d agree with you.

        • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

          Rob. What is wrong with you? There is virtually nobody predicting that any cities anywhere are going to be under water. It is not going to happen. Period. Besides, you obviously haven’t read this.
          http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19752-weakening-ice-sheet-could-protect-itself-from-the-sea.html

          “The ice sheet has a defence mechanism, however. As it melts, sea levels around it will fall, say Natalya Gomez and Jerry Mitrovica of Harvard University and colleagues. That is counterintuitive, because the ice sheet will release extra water into the sea – but because the mass of ice has shrunk, its gravitational pull on the seawater will be weaker. Also, the bedrock will rise up as the weight of ice on it drops.”

          And that is from scientists who still believe in AGW. So buck up. There is no cause for alarm.

          • Uh. Neil – usually you are making sense, but you’ve allowed yourself to get dragged into fairytown and tried to rationalize it. If the ice melts and releases more seawater AND the bedrock rises, wouldn’t that displace even more water?

        • Jerk A. Knot

          Looks like an attempt to use the intellectual product of another and claim it as your own. MARKKARLIN wrote this on BuzzFlash a liberal talking points blog. Be careful Mr. Hood you might be infringing on Mr Karlin’s Cop rights

          • Jerk A. Knot

            OOPS thought I corrected that I meant to say COPYRIGHTS…..

          • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

            Don’t even bother. Mr. Hood is an unapologetic plagerist who claims that it doesn’t matter who says it, as long as it is said. I have gone round and round that mullberry bush for a long time, and all you’ll get is dizzy.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      Yeah, let’s ruin our children’s economic future…… for the children, and their children.(?)

  • Rob N. Hood

    It is already ruined. Didn’t you get the memo?

  • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

    Dan, just trying to aleiviate Rob’s fears even if it is complete bunk! I know what is concerning you about this psudo-scientific excuse for sea levels not rising. I have the same concerns. One of those is the fact that the mass of H2O does not change when you melt ice to water, only the volume changes, and any gravitational affect that mass would have would not change as the state of matter changes.
    Where Rob is concerned, you can’t use facts! We have tried to tell him the ice caps are not melting, and the Polar Bears, Seals, and Walrusses are not in danger. So I figure I can aleiviate his fears with the same kind of garbage junk-science that created them.
    And now youv’e blown it! Thanks a lot Dan.

    • OH! Clever. Sorry!

      • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

        It’s ok. I tried.

        • Jerk A. Knot

          Here is a real fact. The weight of Ice displaces water at a grater rate than it displaces itself. That is why a Glass of Ice water filled to the brim does not over flow when it melts. The surface area of all the oceans is so vast tat if all the Ice on solid ground melted it would only raise the surface a very small amount. Of course the tempture in the world would increase and so would the evaporation rate…. man the circle keeps getting better and better. Oh all that vaper moisture would bloch UV Rays causing the temptures to drop and Ice to reform…. and the circle continues…. Stupid LIBS can not think for themselves.

          • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

            Yes. This only works with H2O because it is one of the only compounds known that expands when frozen. When this expansion occurs the volume increases, but the density decreases because density is the mass per unit volume, so if the mass stays the same but the volume increases, the density will decrease. Which is why it floats on water. :End of science lesson.
            But your’e right! The climate system, chaotic as it is, is self-regulating. It is one thing I have always said about climate predicting computer models is that we don’t yet, and may never, know all of the factors involved. So it is impossible to create an accurate forcast of the climate system because any number of unknown factors can have a profound effect on the whole system.
            So, thanks Jerk!!!

  • Rob N. Hood

    Not very clever. Btw VIRTUALLY all scientists who beleive in global warming do say that all low-lying areas around the world will become flooded with the melting of the ice caps. As in … DUH. I don’t know where you get your info Neil, but it doesn’t even pass the smell test.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Speaking of smell test!!! If a Scientist believes in the GWS then what lends to their crediability in their belief in Low level Flooding??????

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      A. You said cities. B. IT’S ALL BS!!!!!!

      • Rob N. Hood

        Uh…Neil. A. There are major cities in low lying areas. B. You are narrow-minded and opinionated to the nth degree.

        And Mr. Jerk, your abilities re: logical reasoning are under-whelming.

        • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

          “But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.”

          “The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on “going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world”.”

          “One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC’s favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a “corrective factor” of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they “needed to show a trend”.”

          Nuff’ said!

        • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

          Wait a second…. As though you are not opinionated? And I do have an open mind. It’s just that my open mind is filtered through logic, and reasoning before acceptance. Unlike you who has an unfiltered open mind that accepts a lot of nonsense and garbage without question, or confirmation.
          I think you are deficient in judgment, sense, and understanding……. just an opinion!!!

      • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

        I’ll admit I’m wrong when I am wrong. You did not say cities. You said “many areas that humans no(w) inhabit will be underwater”. This does not change my overall point, but I said you said something you did not, and for that I apologise.

  • Barack Idiot Obama

    If this “Global Warming” is so very real, and so very dangerous, then why didn’t all the hypocrites who flew to Cancun simply videoconference instead?
    Simple. They flew there on YOUR dime. They enjoyed steak and lobster on YOUR dime. They stayed over a day or two and lounged at the beach on YOUR dime. As Hal Lewis said, “trillions” of dollars are what is moving this global warming scam, the biggest “pseudoscientific fraud” in his long life as a physicist.

  • paul wenum

    They could Skype. I do. Doesn’t cost you a dime. Oops, that’s too easy.

  • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

    Iv’e always thought that greenie environmentalist Libs were nuts, but now Iv’e got proof!!!!!!

    http://plogspot101.blogspot.com/2010/12/man-marries-earth-in-rare-ceremony.html

    “After the wedding was over, symbolized by a long green fern wrapped around his balding head, Bloom kissed his bride one more time, saying to everyone within earshot: “Fly me to the moon! To Jupiter and Mars!. This is the most wonderful day of my life!”.”

    I don’t know about you, but this left me speechless, with mouth agape, in total befuddlement.

    “VERBATIM COPY OF WEDDING VOWS FOR NEWS OUTLETS:

    Do you, Danny Bloom, take the Earth to be your cosmicly wedded wife? (“I do”).
    Do you promise to love, cherish and protect her, whether in
    good times or during human-caused global warming times of adversity, and to seek with her a life
    hallowed by the eons of time? (“I do”)

    And do you Earth, take this eccentric blooming idiot, to be your cosmicly-wedded husband? (“I do”).
    Do you promise to love, cherish and protect him, whether
    in good fortune or in adversity, and like he said above, that stuff above global warming and climate change, and to seek with him a life
    hallowed by the eons of time? (“I do”)

    I now pronounce you two lovebirds humankind and Earth. You may kiss the bride. You may embrace your husband.

    (They do)”

  • Rob N. Hood

    Juvenile pot-shotting. That’s effective and beneficial to the discussion…not.

    To deal with working people more ruthlessly, the elite have unleashed the radical right. In normal times these “patriots” are around and often yell furiously but no one listens. But in times of economic crisis they’re given endless airtime on all major media outlets. The message of the far right promotes all the rottenness not yet eradicated by education: racism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, violence, and a backward nationalism that fears all things “foreign.” These core beliefs effectively divide working people so that a concerted campaign against the corporate elite is harder to wage. Meanwhile, labor unions, progressives, and other working class organizations are instead targeted.

    The above phenomenon does not happen in a normal economic cycle of boom and bust. These symptoms point to a larger disease in the international economic system, a disease that cannot be cured by politicians who swear allegiance to this deteriorating system and to the wealthy elite who benefit from it.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      Sorry Rob. That is the basic false premise from which you build your opinion of anyone who espouses a right leaning philosophy. Who is the one making grand, sweeping generalisations here? I am not racist, xenophobic, religiously intolerant, or violent, yet you appear to be flinging this at me. Why? Is that your fallback? Your comfort zone? Does it make you feel morally superior to make this charge against us?
      See, this is exactly what I mean when you have an unfiltered open mind. Somebody wrote this somewhere and after you read it, you embraced it, accepted it, without any further thought, or confirmation. Get a life dude.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      I know that because here is the end of the plagiarized post you made.
      “To ensure that the economic system is changed so that working people benefit, large-scale collective action is necessary, based on demands that unite the majority of working people: a massive job-creation program at the expense of Wall Street, no cuts to Social Security and Medicare, a moratorium on home foreclosures, passage of the Employee Free Choice Act, and so on. With the unions in the lead promoting these demands, working people could put up a real fight” By Shamus Cook a Writer for workerscompass.org a revolutionary socialist organization by its own admission.
      For shame Mr. Hood. You are quoting rhetoric by an organization that advocates the overthrow of our Constitution. Some might call you an extremist. I would certainly classify you as a danger to yourself. I am sure that you don’t even realize that the views on that web site are to the left of Pres. Obama. It is a good example of how the modern Socialist is really a Communist. This is too good to make up. Go look it up man you are a pawn here to lead us away from the truth that Climate Change is a Ploy by those who want to overthrow this great Nation by regulation rather than violence. If it does not work though Violence will be coming.

      • Jerk A. Knot

        What was it that I know Rob? I know your little secret.

      • Rob N. Hood

        I didn’t want to post something too lenghty that’s all. Dan’s rules not mine. I agree with all of the rest of the post btw.

        And it is not Liberals who want to shred the Constitution. Where were you when Bush was trying to do that daily? And sometimes even succeeding Hmmm? Pay closer attention. The 24/7 propaganda is clouding your ability to think rationally and logically.

        We will need some kind of revolution (hopefully peacefully) to save the American middle-class. You, not I, are part of the porblem- not the solution you so delusionally think you are.

      • Rob N. Hood

        The climate change thing is about dead. It is now being used to keep US citizens divided, as usual. There will be no significant legislation about it, as I’ve said all along. And so far I’m right. That’s why I rarely talk about it. I am against Can and Trade btw.

  • Rob N. Hood

    It’s your group of folks not mine. It may not fit you exactly (altho you do have a little bit of a temper now don’t you?) but it fits many others of your ilk. That’s all. It is an accurate description, like it or not. Instead of getting mad at me why don’t you call out your ill-tempered compatriots to get with the 21st century and become more civil?

    And no, Jerk, (and Neil) Liberals are not Anarchists. They are two very separate entities, the only thing they have in common is the Left side of the political spectrum. To say otherwise is dishonest or just plain stupid.

    • Dan McGrath

      Of course they aren’t anarchists (well, some are) – they’re statists.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      WHAT??????? Dude you cut the words from S. Cook and used them as your own. You adopted that stance. Arguing with you reminds me of arguing with a kindergartener. “Not me, not me, No you, No you, I am not one you are.”

      To say I am not civil is a joke. I have only refuted your wacked out ideas with fact and reason. I have used my own reason and not that of others. I say this to you very seriously. I am not mad in any way at you. You can not hurt me. With that being said be assured that now that I know who you are on the inside I will never let your opinion go unchallenged. Your ideas present a real threat to people. You will cost people there Jobs, which will lead to families breaking up, which will force the devolution the Socialist wants so that they can ride in to save the day. Devolution may be natural but it is not certain. Energized economy keeps it from becoming a factor. The proof was in the 80’s when Reagan stopped what Carter Started.

      I am not angry I am determined. Determined to stop people like you from fostering the lies (like Climate Change) that you use to bring about anarchy you need to destabilize this Republic and seize control…. I don’t care if you are Liberal, Socialist, Labor party, Communist, or anarchist. I will fight with ideas, words and if necessary my hands to stop the destruction of the Constitution and the U.S.A.
      Oh by the way I am a bible thumping Christian as well. I am not bound by hate but by love. So as awkward as this sounds I want you to know that I love you as one of Gods creatures. But I do adore the twisted lies you have espoused here.

      • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

        Really, Jerk, I’m only saying this as a friendly bit of advise, Rob will counter this with another plagerised piece, and completely ignore any points you have made. I once took the same position that you are taking here but you are going down a road that leads nowhere. Arguing with Rob is like arguing with the wind. Rob is not here to argue with you or anyone else. It is my opinion that he is here to disrupt, and distract, and that there is more than one Rob. If you read this blog long enough you will see differences in writing style and spelling proficiencies from post to post that suggest that there are at least two different people who post as Rob N Hood. This leads me to believe that this is some kind of organized effort to derail, distract, and disrupt this site.
        Argue if you must, but, I’m here to tell you, it is a waste of electrons.

      • Rob N. Hood

        You liked the bigger government and the huge deficit left Bush I and Clinton? It was Clinton who reduced the deficit, and government, and the economy was hardly ever better under him. And I won’t even mention Bush II- that whole deal explains itself. It is you who needs to get a clue.

  • paul wenum

    Well said Mr. Knot!

  • Rob N. Hood

    Wow Jerk. You just made your argument against yourself.

    What you say you fear happening to ordinary people IS ALREADY HAPPENING. It started to occur under your guy Bush. It is you who needs to stop thinking and acting like a kindergartner.

    Obama’s tax cuts help the weathly MUCH more than anyone else. The Repubs always do that as well. So now BOTH parties are officially the same. This country is doomed UNLESS we all wake up to that fact, and organize, right and left, to get the control back from the ELITE. So don’t you dare blame Liberals for this mess. It was DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS (the politicians, and their gullible voters, including me) who have ruined this country- at the behest of the wealthy elite! You don’t get that? Why? It is now as plain as ever. Please wake up you people. I am going to become an Independent, but will ALWAYS be a Liberal and vote for Liberals – NOT Establishment Demorcrats and probably never a Republican, because they are the worst scam artists of all.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      There are no tax cuts Rob.

      http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/taxes/how-the-expiring-bush-tax-cuts-affect-you/

      The so-called Bush tax cuts are scheduled to expire at the end of the year. Although some of the cuts retain bipartisan support in Congress and may yet be extended, as of now, Washington has some severe changes in store for you and your family. Grab a scotch and sit down.

      Higher tax rates for all

      You may have been led to believe that only individuals in the top two brackets will face higher federal income taxes when the Bush cuts go bye-bye. Not true! Unless Congress takes action and President Obama goes along, rates will go up for everyone — not just a sliver of the wealthiest Americans. The current six rate brackets of 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% and 35% will be replaced by five new brackets with the higher rates of 15%, 28%, 31%, 36% and 39.6%. Just a few months ago, it seemed like a safe bet that Congress would make a fix to keep the existing 10%, 15%, 25% and 28% rate brackets to help out lower and middle-income folks. That bet is now looking iffy.

      Higher capital gains and dividends taxes for all

      Right now, the maximum federal rate on long-term capital gains and dividends is only 15%. Starting next year, the maximum rate on long-term gains will increase to 20%. The maximum rate on dividends will skyrocket to 39.6% unless action is taken to limit the rate to 20%, as the president has repeatedly promised. Plan on 39.6%, and hope I’m wrong.

      Right now, an unbeatable 0% rate applies to long-term gains and dividends collected by folks in lowest two rate brackets of 10% and 15%. Starting next year, those folks will pay 10% on long-term gains and 15% and 28% on dividends (compared with 0% now) unless a change is made. Otherwise, taxes on long-term gains and dividends will go up for everyone.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Oh – and that means I am NOT voting for Obama next time. So that will make you rIGHTYS oh so happy because there are many Liberals like me who will NOT vote for him again. So then your equally (or MORE) crooked Republican can win, and make things all better? Hogwash. We will just go down the drain faster, and the rich will get even richer and the middle-class will continue shrinking. But I guess none of that matters as long as the Republicans are in control, right?? Then you can all sleep peacefully and ignore the evil all around you. THAT IS what is CHILDISH.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      ROB,
      Of course you are not. He is not Left enough for you. That is the whole issue here. Your hate wont allow you to see reality. I want you to understand one thing. Listen to what I say. This is the whole basis of where I come from. I espouse the Constitution. At this time the Republican party is closer to it than the Democrat Party. That being said. I have zero tolerance for any politician that strays from there oath to uphold it. If you were to truly classify me I would be a Conservative Constitutionalist. My views or on the right side of the political spectrum. What makes me sleep well at night is I know that I have been a good steward of the gifts that God has afforded me, I have created Jobs, treated my employees honorably, served my community, and have fought the good fight. You see when I compare what my Right wing friends have done for the poor it far exceeds what the left has done… Don’t you get it. Clinton Did Not Reduce the deficit. The Republican Controlled Congress and Senate did. The one thing you lefties always leave out of the equation when you talk about Clinton is the fact that the Cold war was over and he slashed the Military to its bones…. I was a soldier at that time and I will tell you this. We (Department of Defense) Paid that bill. I remember when we were ordered not to use color printers just so we could save money for fuel for tanks when we went to qualify our crews.
      I sure don’t ignore the evil around me. I confront it ever day. In my eyes and many on this site I am doing that right now. Your finished Your credibility is done here and as I said I am determined to stay the coarse. I survived one of the worst firefights in Iraq … Believe me Your tong does not scare nor can it hurt me at all
      Paul,
      Thank you… Keep in the fight Brother. I love Rob as a human but I will not back down to his twisted lies or personal lies.

      • Rob N. Hood

        OMG- talk about lies. If the color ink thing is true (ververyvery unlikely to say the least) – the severe hardship of using only black ink is bringing tears of shame and horror to my eyes. Not.

        Plus I just don’t believe you. If they really were running out of tank fuel it was wither thru mismanagment and/or not cutting graft and bloat where it really needed to be cut. Plain and simple.

        And you guys think I’m a subversive plant. Jerk seems to fit that category really well.

  • paul wenum

    Sir Knot, I’m with you my friend. Keep it up. Your posts brought me back with more vigor than ever. I live with the belief that no matter the consequences truth will always prevail. Always has and always will. Now I must go back to work to pay the bills. Oh, and those extra taxes I assume are forthcoming shortly by our trusted left. Can’t wait for January, 2011 when my employees ask why their paychecks are smaller. I will give them the number for the DNC.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Me too Brother!!! We have decided to plan for the tax rate to rise. 2Q will be tough without them staying where they are. Maybe Rob will help some of my labor pay there bills. I already am providing all that I can.

    • Rob N. Hood

      Actually under the current plan their checks will be bigger due to the payroll tax holiday. As usual you people either intentionally spew dis-information or you are brainwashed by Beck and Rush.

  • paul wenum

    Suggest a nice Christmas bonus to carry them over before the end of the year!

  • Rob N. Hood

    Oh I’m soooo sorry you are soooo rich that you might have to pay a little bit more in taxes. Boo hoo. Although, it appears that Obama has once again caved in to the Right. So breathe easier…

  • paul wenum

    Everyone would pay more taxes including you and every employee no matter how much you make. Let me be clear, there is no “TAX CUT”! It is a raise in existing taxes. Your leg must tingle when you hear all Dems state “Tax cut.” It’s their motto lately and the public buys it. Apparently you have never had to meet a payroll. You just take a check. There is a different mindset when you are an employer and the employees salaries rest upon you. It is apparent you haven’t nor ever will be in that position with your thought process. If so, you would have a mass revolt at your office. By the way, my staff is treated very well and have been for over 20 years.

  • Rob N. Hood

    You are using flawed logic to paint me and all Dems or Libs, apparently, into your corner. You twist things around and it is very tiresome. I would love to have a real discussion and debate but it just doesn’t happen very often if ever. So I will not be here much longer- and will leave you all alone to your cozy echo chamber of unreality.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      What is flawed? He is telling the truth…. And to extend his logic Guess WHAT!!!!! When it costs me more to do buisness. And Taxes are a buisness expence. I will raise the price point on my product to cover that expence. You have said numerous times that you have studied economics. How can you not get the Basics. Some times I think we are debating with kid still in Colledge that is earning extra $$$ by posting to a conservitive site TP’s from Left wing web sites.

  • Rob N. Hood

    IT WILL NOT COST MORE… why do you keep saying that??? Obama did what the Republicans wanted. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SUPPORING IT AND MANY DEMS DO NOT.

  • Rob N. Hood

    IT WILL NOT COST MORE… why do you keep saying that??? Obama did what the Republicans wanted. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SUPPORING IT AND MANY DEMS DO NOT. What is it about THIS LOGIC that you don’t get?????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Rob N. Hood

    I’m done with you nitwits. Truly. It’s like trying to talk adult to a child who is two years old. And I’m being kind…

  • paul wenum

    I love people that talk about themselves, unknowing, when in a defensive mode. I see it in my business daily.

  • Rob N. Hood

    It’s not defensive, it’s offensive. That you cannot see that or admit that illustrates once again your automatic/natural inability to view the world objectively and rationally.

    I am so done. You people are the extreme. My views are mainstream by comparison. That is proven by poll after poll.

    It is you and your ilk that are supporting those forces that are destroying this country. And the only way they are getting away with it is because there are just enough of you useful idiots and you are also the ones who vote without fail. I only wish the Left had such dedicated mercenaries.

    • Dan McGrath

      I only wish the Left had such dedicated mercenaries.

      You mean like ACORN, AFSCME, SEIU, Teachers Unions (NEA, etc), Teamsters, AFL-CIO, Organizing for America, UFW, UFCW, NOW, the Sierra Club, Issiah, MoveOn, NAACP, Alliance for Democracy, League of Women Voters, Wellstone Action, Code Pink, Emily’s List, and all of George Soros’ little front groups? You wish you had dedicated mercenaries like that?

      • Rob N. Hood

        ACORN was decimated by the Right. Why do you list them> And All unions today are mre shadows of their former selves. They cave more often than not to management. This is reality, something you seem unfamiliar with. All the entities you list above or more are nothing compared to what the Right has/gets. It’s laughable how weak the Left is- to the extent that it almost literally doesn’t exist. Only in the hearts and minds of people like me, basically. So I don’t know why you are all so paranoid. That’s a question only a licensed psychologist could possibly answer.

  • Rob N. Hood

    The deal that President Obama struck with Republican leaders is an abomination.

    It will cost $900 billion over the next two years — larger than the bailout of Wall Street, GM, and Chrysler
    put together, larger than the stimulus package, larger than anything that’s come out of Washington in years.

    It makes a mockery of deficit reduction. Worse, the lion’s share of that $900 billion will go to the very rich.
    Families with incomes of over $1 million will reap an average of about $70,000, while middle-class families
    earning $50,000 a year will get an average of around $1,500. In addition, the deal just about eviscerates the
    estate tax — yanking the exemption up to $5 million per person and a maximum rate of 35 percent.

    And for what?

    Wealthy families won’t spend nearly as large a share of what they get out of this deal as will middle-class
    and working-class families, so it doesn’t do much to stimulate the economy.

    The deal further concentrates income and wealth in America — when it’s already more concentrated
    than at any time in the last 80 years.

    The bits and pieces the President got in return — extended unemployment benefits, a continuation of certain
    small tax benefits for the middle class — are peanuts. After last week’s awful jobs report, Senate Republicans
    would have been forced to extend unemployment insurance anyway.

    Also it’s politically nuts. (only if you care about your base, which Obama apparently does NOT)
    Polls showed most Americans are against extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Now we know Obama works for the elite just like they all do. This is a one-party country and we need to change the system!!!

    • Dan McGrath

      The deal that President Obama struck with Republican leaders is an abomination.

      It will cost $900 billion over the next two years — larger than the bailout of Wall Street, GM, and Chrysler
      put together, larger than the stimulus package, larger than anything that’s come out of Washington in years.

      Deciding not to raise taxes doesn’t cost the government anything. That’s like saying “not having a 100% tax rate “costs” the federal government $7 trillion a year.”

      You seem to start with the assumption that the government owns and has rights to absolutely everything and by letting us keep some portion of our earnings, the government is spending money. Look how nice the government is – digging deep into the treasury to let us keep some of the money we earn ourselves. And we’re to believe you aren’t a communist?

      • Rob N. Hood

        False argument. Why? The tax rate was TEMPORARY. That’s what makes the difference. Plus the fact that the richest people DON’T need any more breaks!!!!!!!!!!! It’s the middle class that does.

        You guys Always seem to resort to False logic. Or maybe it’s faulty logic. The first problem you know you are using it, the second instance you don’t. Which is it?

  • paul wenum

    I sense frustration from one that has never ever been in “The trenches.” Suggest you exist in the real world someday. The trenches are a wonderful place to be to bring a person back to reality be it on the line as a paperboy, laborer, factory worker, rock picker, bartender/bouncer, repo man, surveyor for the Corp of Engineers, crew Manager, Loan Officer, Director of Operations and the list goes on and on…. Been in more trenches than you will ever know. I think about that every day and that’s what keeps me as others going that start companies and take risks we never back off or give up. something my liberal friend you will never ever understand. We EARN our money we don’t put our hands out looking for sympathy benefits nor a hand-out. It’s called life. Must be the Scotsman in me when you state “small tax benefits for the middle class-are peanuts.” Those “peanuts” would feed my family for a month at your young age, however, this just reverts back to your entitlement attitude. You don’t want “Peanuts” you want the whole pie with no consequence other than take it from my pocket to put into yours. Never changes. A thief never changes.

  • Rob N. Hood

    I do believe we’ve had this discussion before. More than once. You can take your conceited dementia addled thoughts and …… well, you know the rest.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Oh wait- I just over-looked something! You guys (Dan, for sure) are Defending Obama…!!!!! Ha ha that is too funny! Now you Rightys like him better than real Liberals do. It only makes sense. Maybe you will vote for him next time huh? I’m not going to.

    This country is REALLY messed up.

  • paul wenum

    “Well, you know the rest.” Yes I do. Time for a little rest and reflecting on your part. By the way, the country is in flux at present. Give it another two years. No change? Then we have a major problem.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Trust me. There will be No change except for the continuing of worse change, slowly or suddenly, it happens and will. The only way out it to get the money outof elections and politics. Truly. It is actually as simple as that. And yet you people will oppose that simple need to the bitter end. THAT is why I blame you all for this mess. I will stop blaming once you realize that simple truth.

  • paul wenum

    Then I guess you will never “stop blaming.” We will never realize your illogical logic.

  • Rob N. Hood

    It IS basic logic and reasoning, that I use. You are blinded to IT. I do not know why that is, but I believe it is due to genetics. Most things human are. But for folks like you it amounts to brain damage. I’m using that as comparison. Nothing else seems to be a better comparison. People on the Left DO admit when they find out they are wrong. They DO change their minds when provided additional information that they use rationally to come to a logical solution or idea. I have notieced people on the Right, RARELY, if EVER do this. This whole site is a perfect example of that. You all demonstrate that “fact” constantly. I cannot remember or find any example of you all doing anything other than remain STATIC in your beliefs. You will now fall back to the defense that I do the same and that I’m being hypocritical. It may appear that I am like you in that way, but I am not. For example, why don’t I robotically stay on topic re: climate change etc. Because I remain open to the idea that it is false, I am here to read what is posted and digest it. And, yes, I am also here to challenge you.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Dude,

      The problem with your logic is that it is to basic. It is like trying to solve a Quantum Physics problem with Basic Algebra. All the good Algebra in the world will not get you the answer. The Right is so far beyond the simple emotional responses of the left it is incomprehensible for them to understand. There is also a lack of process. When something happened the Left is quick to change course to fix the problem without a concerted effort to find the cause and fix that. . Ethanol is better for the environment. There is no fact there. The Jury is still out. However we are spending Billions to subsidize it. Crazy….illogical.

      • Rob N. Hood

        Actually it is the right who allows their emotions to impede rational thinking. It is the Democrat who tries to discuss in sometimes boring detail the merits of this or that. What does the Right do? They go for the emotion, the superficial, the hot-button. That is reality- you can see it everday on TV, radio, etc.

        That is fact. As far as Ethanol goes, no Liberals are for it anymore, nor where that many to begin with. It was mostly large farming enterprises that wanted it and got it from their representatives, both Dem and Rep. I do not believe in it either- never did. It was all a political game mainly to raise the price of corn. And it worked.

  • paul wenum

    Well said Sir Jerk.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Thank you Paul.

      I truly enjoy the thrust and perry of verbal fencing. It is too bad that others on here use a butter knife agaist my cutless. And I thought Robbin Hood was a master swordsman.

      • Rob N. Hood

        Oh ouch. See the above.

  • paul wenum

    You are welcome. Can tell you are a true Scot. Highlanders use mean swords and never back down to a verbal battle of the wits. We love a challenge.

  • Jerk A. Knot

    I also fly St. Andrews cross in my office. However I rarely go regimental……lol

  • paul wenum

    Clan Buchanan. Have my bagpipe on the wall and colors as well. River Dee and Tom Down in the highlands with no TV and only discourse at the bar after dinner is my favorite. My great grandfather’s Wolf River is no longer there. We were Nomadic and moved every two/three years due to the game/fish in the area. The Brits put my ancestors on a boat and shipped them to Canada. they were called “savages” similar to today’s native Americans. Things don’t really change do they. Still have my great grandfathers/grandfathers/fathers mentality to never back off when a problem arises. Assume that is a good thing?

  • Jerk A. Knot

    You and me both,

    I am a descendant of Johnny Armstrong a great Braggart. He was from the southern lowlands and a horseman. He was branded an outlaw later to be drawn and Quartered. Not quite as famously as William Wallace. I knew there was a kinship between us as much as we agree.

  • paul wenum

    Thank you Sir Knot, Clans band together. Walked the 288 steps to William Wallace’s monument on the hill overlooking his final battle/grave site. My wife asked why I was in awe of the surroundings. The answer? Wallace fought for his country with no recourse or worry about the consequences. Very simple response from a simple Scotsman. “Rob Roy” was a true Scotman as well. (been to his site as well) Why don’t we have men today with convictions such as persons of the past that thought/fought about their country first and their personal welfare last? I believe you, as a Scot, know the answer but I will raise the question to see the responses from those that post on this site. I have always been troubled with people that have no personal commitment, other than verbal, (not advocating physical) that literally tell it the way is has been and is today. I hope to be proven wrong. Can imagine the chastising posts forthcoming. Oh well, my choice I guess.

  • paul wenum

    Sir Knot, only go regimental in Hawaii.

  • Jerk A. Knot

    Paul,

    There are many of them living today. Remember all of our Founding Fathers were considered Traitors at first they were called crazy, radical, dangerous. Had the revolution failed they all would have been hung by the neck and there wealth taken from them. Oh yea they were elite wealthy men. They all believed in the rights of the individual. We have some of those kind of people with us today. They are labeled as dangerous, angry, raciest, crazy, ….. they all spoke last November. it was a peaceful lawful revolution.

    I am glad you are one of my Brothers in this “fight” for our great constitutional republic.

  • paul wenum

    Sir Knot,

    We are on the same page. Our “fight” is to keep our constitutional freedom under our republic as long as we possibly can. Very simple but apparently so “complex” for liberals to comprehend. I still to this day cannot understand why the adversary (liberals) calls you, I and others, racist, crazy et al when it is nothing but a difference of opinion. As a recent study regarding liberals claims, “It is in their genes.” Give us a break, it is their lack of knowledge and understanding of reality that is a problem, not that we all don’t have our faults. We all do. At least we acknowledge same.

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