U.S. Corn Ethanol "Was Not a Good Policy"-Gore

algore-pollution-money-200U.S. ethanol consumes about 40 pct corn crop; Impact on food prices “real”

By Gerard Wynn

ATHENS, Nov 22 (Reuters) – Former U.S. vice-president Al Gore said support for corn-based ethanol in the United States was “not a good policy”, weeks before tax credits are up for renewal.

U.S. blending tax breaks for ethanol make it profitable for refiners to use the fuel even when it is more expensive than gasoline. The credits are up for renewal on Dec. 31.

Total U.S. ethanol subsidies reached $7.7 billion last year according to the International Energy Industry, which said biofuels worldwide received more subsidies than any other form of renewable energy.

“It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for (U.S.) first generation ethanol,” said Gore, speaking at a green energy business conference in Athens sponsored by Marfin Popular Bank.

“First generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small.

“It’s hard once such a programme is put in place to deal with the lobbies that keep it going.”
He explained his own support for the original programme on his presidential ambitions.

“One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president.”

Read the rest at Reuters.

  • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

    Now he tells us!!!!! Finally Eyeore agrees with me! Iv’e been saying this for 10 years. What a jackwagon!!!!!

  • Hal Groar

    WHOA!! There was a cold breeze thru hell today! Al conceded that Ethanol is bad policy…well…the first batch anyway. But of course the second batch is much better!! When will he admit that it is worse then the first? After it is mandated in every state and all vehicles must be built to run on it. I agree with Neil, too little too late! I wonder if Al will lead the charge to get rid of the billions of dollars in subsidies?! I wonder if that breeze in hell will stick around.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      Won’t Hell get hotter if there’s global warming? Maybe Satan bought a Trane!!!

  • paul wenum

    When I read the article I thought, “Now what’s he up to?” Never underestimate this guy.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      Yes Paul that is a good question. He may be trying to work a new angle after losing his shorts in the CCX.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Oh yes, don’t ever concede the enemy any good graces. Jeez, you guys are a bunch of harpys. Even some Nazis stopped fighting on Christmas and sang songs with the Americans. You guys take the cake.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      I like cake. Why wouldn’t I take it?
      Good grief Rob, Eyeore is the biggest supporter of AGW theory in the history of AGW theory! He deserves our criticism, and our scorn. Plus he’s rich!!!! You should hate him for that alone. Or do you just hate rich Republicans?
      As far as nazi’s singing songs with Americans on a Christmas in WWII? Never happened. http://www.feldgrau.com/weihnachten.html
      Perhaps you are referring to several Christmas truces that occured during WWI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce But none of those were with American troops.
      There were French, English, and one other one I can’t recall, but not American. Click the link to find out more.
      Your grasp of history is just as firm as your grasp of reality. Why am I not surprised?

  • Rob N. Hood

    Or was it the British, or both. WWI? Think so.

  • Rob N. Hood

    As stated above I wasn’t sure exactly, but the reality of it occurring is something you even admit, AFTER you say “it never happened.” Now that is some kind of mental gymnastics. You Rightys are good at that, if nothing else.

    I don’t hate all rich people it’s true. There are many with their hearts in the right place and make efforts to improve the world they will leave behind when they die. Then there’s the other kind of Rich. As to Al Gore I would like him even if he wasn’t rich, even though I disagree with his idea for Cap-n-Trade. You see people like me don’t hate just for the sake of hating, or at a whim, or the slightest reason, unlike some people.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      So why don’t you like me Rob? After all, Eyeore is saying the exact same thing now that I have said for 10 years. I knew using corn for ethanol was going to make corn prices skyrocket, and people would starve because of it. What do you think motivates me Rob? I see the AGW scam as something that is causing, and is going to cause irrepairable harm to people by way of destroying economies. I said making ethanol from corn was a bad idea, long before Eyeore said it. But you are only willing to accept that now that he’s said it? I am not what you think I am Rob, not even close.

      • As I recall, Mr. Hood has often stated that he agreed corn ethanol and cap and trade are both bad ideas. Unfortunately, he still believes the lie of AGW and wants to tax carbon dioxide.

        • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

          Your memory is better than mine.

  • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/11/paper-compelling-evidence-of-cosmic-ray.html
    “A paper published today in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics finds “perhaps the most compelling evidence presented thus far of a GCR [Galactic Cosmic Ray]-climate relationship.” The galactic cosmic ray theory of Svensmark et al explains how small changes in the solar magnetic field during solar cycles can be amplified via effects on galactic cosmic rays, which in turn seed cloud formation to affect global climate.”

    “Abstract. The effect of the Galactic Cosmic Ray (GCR) flux on Earth’s climate is highly uncertain. Using a novel sampling approach based around observing periods of significant cloud changes, a statistically robust relationship is identified between short-term GCR flux changes and the most rapid mid-latitude (60°–30° N/S) cloud decreases operating over daily timescales; this signal is verified in surface level air temperature (SLAT) reanalysis data. A General Circulation Model (GCM) experiment is used to test the causal relationship of the observed cloud changes to the detected SLAT anomalies. Results indicate that the anomalous cloud changes were responsible for producing the observed SLAT changes, implying that if there is a causal relationship between significant decreases in the rate of GCR flux (~0.79 GU, where GU denotes a change of 1% of the 11-year solar cycle amplitude in four days) and decreases in cloud cover (~1.9 CU, where CU denotes a change of 1% cloud cover in four days), an increase in SLAT (~0.05 KU, where KU denotes a temperature change of 1 K in four days) can be expected. The influence of GCRs is clearly distinguishable from changes in solar irradiance and the interplanetary magnetic field. However, the results of the GCM experiment are found to be somewhat limited by the ability of the model to successfully reproduce observed cloud cover. These results provide perhaps the most compelling evidence presented thus far of a GCR-climate relationship. From this analysis we conclude that a GCR-climate relationship is governed by both short-term GCR changes and internal atmospheric precursor conditions.”

  • Rob N. Hood

    You are correct Dan. However, I am not certain about the tax on carbon. The only reason people are even looking at such a tax is because the Right has successfully shut out any sane discussion about other possible solutions to pollution via taxing the polluters what they should be taxed, especially to pay for the messes they leave behind, not to mention the refusal to assist in the avoidance of pollution in the first place which would be the most beneficial solution of all. Can we end all pollution?- of course not. Can we do a much better job reducing it? Of course. What I am talking about is simple common sense. The problem is there isn’t much of it around anymore- thus the creative efforts by some to work around the ignorance and the selfish shortsightedness.

    And Neil I didn’t say or imply that I hated you. However I did imply that you hated me. Did you not comprehend that or what?

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      CO2 is not pollution. It is a natural and essential gas that is vital to plants that use it for photosythesis. As far as actual pollutants go, you know, stuff that is actually toxic, or poisonous, you’re right… there isn’t much of it around anymore. And that’s a good thing. The less the better. Don’t you think the EPA should stop wasting time and resources and go after the people who are polluting? I think you would be surprised to know that, talking about real pollution, i.e. poisonous and toxic substances, you and I would not be too far off of the same page. Doesn’t it seem suspicious to you that something that is produced by just about every process on Earth is deemed a pollutant, and must be regulated?

      Also, I didn’t think that you implied that you hate me. I said you don’t like me. Which, negative by itself, doesn’t rise to the level of hate. And I don’t hate you, I only disagree with you on just about everything. That doesn’t mean I hate you.
      I said you hate rich people. A fact that you constantly display. And I thought you should hate Eyeore because he is rich. Come on man, this guy’s hands are just as dirty as any elite you cite, maybe even dirtier, but you would like him even if he wasn’t rich!!!! I hope you get the chance to find out if that is true.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Hey Lefty

      Go to Europe and work on quelling pollution there. They are flat Broke and you still can not eat out of 1/2 of there rivers…. Try China. They are the #1 polluters in the world… GO I SAY save the world from evil corporations at the source. The I am for saving the environment in a common sense way. Don’t tax to punish Fine to punish that way you hit the bad guys not everyone. I don’t mean little fines I mean hit them by taking % of profits. See if you tax everyone they just pass that expense to the consumer. If you fine the polluters they can not pass the expense on because competition wont let them. Let me make it simple. Coke and Pepsi costs about the same price in the store. Coke gets a 10% fine on there profit they cant just raise there price to defer the cost because they will lose market share. They hurt bad and wont do it again. See common sense. You have to be able to think for yourself to come up with this kind of solution but you are to busy cutting and pasting from Moveon.org to do that.

  • paul wenum

    Neil, Hal, Dan,

    This is ridiculous. We all work hard, make our thoughts known and have to listen to a person that takes delight in constantly demeaning people that post on this site and we, as conservatives, take it. That’s part of our problem. Oh, that’s right, be nice to your neighbor. I do. Turn your cheek, I Do. Be charitable. I am. Honor you family and friends. I do. I was chastised for calling a person a “Boy.” Yes, that individual is, in my opinion, a “Boy.” (A child) I will no longer post any comments on this site. Life is too short my friends. Have better things to do with my life. By the way, C02 is NOT a pollutant as you Neil so aptly state. Keep up the good work! Somebody has to do it. As to Robby B…. Hope you sleep good at night. I’m sure that you three will get a snide remark from “SIR HOOD” after my post and he will gloat hereafter going forward. Guarantee it. Finally, “Laird Paul” of Scottish descent, gives hard left wing clan status to “Sir Hood” with all honors bestowed upon him to make this Republic a socialistic society. When he meets a real Scot he will understand what I just stated. By the way, we are called Laird’s not Lords. At least in Scotland.

  • Rob N. Hood

    You always get things backwards Paul. You all are much more demeaning to me, but at least I don’t whine about it like you do. Plus you beleive good qualities about yourself- and maybe in real life you are like that, but here you mostly are not. You pat yourself on the back and then call me Boy again. That proves once again you are a hypocrite and do not understand yourself very well. And you end with a silly remark to make you feel elitist, which you are, even though you will never admit that fact.

    People like you seem to live in an imaginary world. I’ve come here to learn more about that than climate change, it’s true. Be that as it may, nothing here has changed my views on that subject- although I do remain open minded. That may seem like a contradiction to you but it isn’t. It simply means that a biased site like this doesn’t help solve anything.

    I’ve come to believe, even more strongly than before, that many people are “hard-wired” either to the Left or the Right, and practically nothing can change that orientation. I think many people can go either way, and therein lies my hopes for a better future not just for this country but for the world and all mankind.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      Rob… come on. That is complete garbage. You are not here to learn anything. You came here with a mind towards disruption and criticism. And your last line in your above post made me want to barf!!!!! We may have our faults, and you have appointed yourself to point them out, but you my friend have a god complex.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Rob,

      If everyone else is backwards it is probably because you are looking in a mirror. You belittle the opinion of every poster on here that disagrees with your view. You use very little fact to strengthen your position and when you do it is a simple Cut and Paste reference with out any independent analysis to support your opinion. All dissenters with you opinion are Righties, Old fashioned, Hate mongers, Ultra rich elitists.. I have called you out on your fact and intellectual ability. Now I am going to call you out on your moral biases. From what I have seen on your posts here you believe that there is one side that is all perfect that walks on water and makes no mistakes. That is your side. That is pure arrogance. I can go back and cite numerous spelling errors you have made on this site. That proves you are not perfect. Sorry boy but you do argue like a child on here and if you can not take heat then get out of the Kitchen. I will also criticize Paul for that. As a Scotsman to a Scotsman Paul why are you running from this boy? Stay in the fight. We as conservatives need to keep our banners flying and stand our ground. Don’t let Rob win with his hallow arguments and Jedi Mind tricks.

  • Hal Groar

    Rob you need to take a break from the site and learn some environmental economics. You may learn even more! Check back in a semester…or 42.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD

      He’s got high hopes. He’s got high hopes. He’s got high apple pie in the sky hopes.

  • Rob N. Hood

    You guys validate my points time and time again. You never fail, in that regard at least.

    Paul will be back- especially when this pesky Liberal goes away. You all hate criticism, or even questioning, your hard-wired beliefs.

    • Riiight. That’s why the site is open to comments (without even requiring a login) and they are only moderated for bad language and insults.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Wasn’t referring to you Dan, but if the shoe fits…

  • Jerk A. Knot

    Rob
    If everyone else is backwards it is probably because you are looking in a mirror. You belittle the opinion of every poster on here that disagrees with your view. You use very little fact to strengthen your position and when you do it is a simple Cut and Paste reference with out any independent analysis to support your opinion. All dissenters with you opinion are Righties, Old fashioned, Hate mongers, Ultra rich elitists.. I have called you out on your fact and intellectual ability. Now I am going to call you out on your moral biases. From what I have seen on your posts here you believe that there is one side that is all perfect that walks on water and makes no mistakes. That is your side. That is pure arrogance. I can go back and cite numerous spelling errors you have made on this site. That proves you are not perfect. Sorry boy but you do argue like a child on here and if you can not take heat then get out of the Kitchen. I will also criticize Paul for that. As a Scotsman to a Scotsman Paul why are you running from this boy? Stay in the fight. We as conservatives need to keep our banners flying and stand our ground. Don’t let Rob win with his hallow arguments and Jedi Mind tricks.

  • paul wenum

    A scot never runs from a fight and I have been taught that since childhood when I was a Boy.. Scot’s stop, think and ponder their next plan of attack and what is most vulnerable to their opponent. Unfortunately, opposing parties without common sense, open to natural discussion absent water boarding are beyond help. (nobody in particular pointed out). I’m still thinking. ( Have work to finish and took a break.) Possibly Later? We shall see and keep you advised. By the way, finally, good discourse on this site! Keep it up my friends!

  • paul wenum

    “Jerk A Knot”, whomever you may be, you kicked my arse into gear.. After pondering ,thinking and reading your posts you seem like a true Scot! I’m back in the game. Let’s now see what happens. Note that the opposing party lost on the climate bill. Fantastic!! Now, the work is cut out for the republicans to either put up or shut up. Sick of everything being PC! Just do what is right for the country. Very simple, not complex though the MSM seem to make it look that way.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Hey Mr. Jerk, I have provided plenty of “independent analysis”, and been doing so for about a year now- (where were you that entire time?) and you are calling ME arrogant? Wow. And the others posting here do not cut and paste and take only their side and biases into account? Really? Cut and paste is merely information, which is the point, doncha know, but you know better, I guess, and yet call me arrogant?

    And my few little typos here and there bother your sensitive sensabilities do they? Who needs to get out of the kitchen? Me? Really? Rightys are nothing if not very consistent, and hypocritical. Your rant proves that point fairly well. And good for you Paul- knew you’d come back.

    But I am going to stop doing this someday soon, I hope. This type of back and forth is indeed nonsense since no one is changing anyone’s mind. It’s merely an addiction to being “right” (correct) and telling others they are wrong. Not the healthiest thing to do. I am no just pointing the finger at you all, I am pointing at myself too.

    • Jerk A. Knot

      Rob,
      I have not seen one thing that you have given any independent intellectual analysis. Just yesterday I found another cut an past that has no reference to where it came from. Neil is very good about including his cut and paste within quotation marks. He also usually includes a link to where he got the information from then provides his take on it. I have seen Dan do the same. You on the other hand post the intellectual property of other people as if it was your original thought. That is the issue. My point about your misspellings is just what you said SO WHAT. That is my point little mistakes are not as important as the overarching idea.
      To address your comment about where I have been the last couple of years. I have been busting my rear end to build a future for my kids. I went into business with 2 other guys when I got back from Iraq. We grew it from a small strip mall office with 5 employees into 125 employees. We market our protective equipment to all levels of Government and to the private sector. We invest heavily back into the community and our business. I have created more Jobs and opportunities than the POTUS ever has. This year we hast to cut 10 employees to protect our bottom line. Protecting the Bottom line also protects JOBS!!! So forgive me of I have been to busy to be politically active. Why now have I started to be politically active? Because I am tired of seeing what the left is doing to us. Destroying Private industry and blaming Wall Street or the elite rich for the mistakes of there regulations. Oh believe me I am mad at the Republicans that sold out there conservative values for the sake of keeping there job. So I take time to visit 8 or 9 sites now to lock horns with people like you. I actively support Conservative candidates for office at all levels of Govt. Most importantly I work hard so that I never have to lay off another employee…. But I probably will if taxes go up along with the cost of HC…. But as you say I can afford it. Sorry Rob that is not the way it works. My employees and customers have to pay for it.

  • paul wenum

    Sir Rob, Check, check-mate.

  • paul wenum

    “Sir Rob”, you are correct in one statement, “no one is changing anyone’s mind.” Unfortunately, in your mind you are correct. Not mine. Hope you get a PHD, not an MBA that you apparently have in hand. Good luck and start feeding those young ones you supposedly have which I assume true. Your posts seem to dictate otherwise but who am I to say? Just a simple Scot that just took a break from work. Back to work again. Later.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Mr. Hypocrite never fails.

    Perhaps you missed this one on huffpo: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/05/job-market-unemployment-chart_n_792202.html

    The graph dovetails with the latest Friedmanist dictat (i.e.Righty bull-crap). It shows the disaster that Friedmanism run amok has been to workers… just like it was everywhere else it was forced onto populations before it was done to us… or, rather, we morons demanded it with our voting…

    The question now is not when jobs will recover this time around. It is WHETHER jobs will recover this time … or ever.

    In history, it has happened that when a mass delusion system encounters a competing mass delusion system, they often just kill the followers of the competing system.

    Friedmanism is nothing if not a religious delusion … one that pays lavishly if you are already wealthy. You know, if you’re the pope, roman cat’licism is a really good gig.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Friedmanism = Neoliberalism. And it has nothing to do with Liberalism. And as far as I can tell the unused term Neoconservative is just another term for Neoliberal. I could be wrong about that though, but not about the first part. You see the elite like to keep us serfs confused and divided. This is just another example of how they shift and hide their true aims. Even climate change seems to have turned out to be just another shiny object to keep the un-washed masses aroused and at each other’s throats. Or at least they turned it into such a device. They aren’t stupid, that’s for sure.

  • Jerk A. Knot

    http://www.globalwarming.org/2010/12/08/wind-energy-lobby-kindly-proves-my-point/
    Rob,
    This is from your ilk….. Green Energy Jobs will be lost if the Tax Cuts Expire!!!!!!! They live by the same economic principals the real word does when there subsidies disappear….

    LOL The left side of the world keeps me in stitches……

  • Rob N. Hood

    The Wind Energy lobby is not any different apparently from any other “big” business lobby. That’s all that proves. Our broken and corrupt political system makes these lobby groups unfortunately essential, for any type of business or large investment, which Wind Energy is/would be. Duh…

  • Rob N. Hood

    Many large energy companies are backing if not outright owning these “offshoots” of Green Energy. It’s just smart business for them plus they can hide behind it and manipulate the marketing back and forth as they see fit for their maximum benefit. This usually means working to undermine it while appearing to be polticially smart and correct. And if all else fails they can jump on board and start making Green profits ASAP.

    Everyone who is honest and half-way intelligent knows that the countries with real Green Technology will be ahead of the others in the future. America used to be that way, but isn’t anymore. We are imploding like all bloated and corrupt empires before us.

  • paul wenum

    “Green technology will be ahead of others in the future.” Look at Spain. Wonder what caused their major unemployment? Oh, that’s right. They don’t count do they. Darn it, not politically correct am I. We weren’t supposed to know that. Must be only “half-way” intelligent as you say. Of course, I don’t cut and paste, I use my own words not words written/spoken by others. I can think/write for myself, can you?

  • Rob N. Hood

    Spain’s problems are because they are Green? Is that what you are trying to say? Would you like to add something (anything?!) to prove that statement… or what? You just like to make crap up???

  • Rob N. Hood

    BTW- those were/are my words. Doesn’t matter though does it? You just like to find things to complain about to avoid the actual thoughts/ideas.

  • paul wenum

    You mean you actually write? Suggest you look it up.

  • Rob N. Hood

    You didn’t answer my question… still waiting.

  • paul wenum

    You haven’t reported back on your assignment. Look it up.

  • paul wenum

    I’m still waiting as your compatriates burn a car or two when you don’t get your way. Typical anarchist. Let me know when you have an answer for which you cannot reply to with a realistic answer other than to cut and paste. Been searching I assume? Report on your assignment! I’m impatiently awaiting as well as others.

  • Rob N. Hood

    Sick. Everyone knows anarchists have literally and figuratively nothing to do with being Liberal. Now, extremist right-wing white (not always) guys with guns actual do KILL people from time to time. And please note I HAVE NOT CALLED THEM YOUR COMPATRIOTS. Paul you are a child and need to grow up. It’s never too late.

  • paul wenum

    Still waiting for a lucid answer.

  • SPURWING PLOVER

    Al Gore and Greenpeace the number one numero uno source of HOT AIR around and gore just has to open his big fat piehole

  • Rob N. Hood

    You are almost as intelligent as Paul.

  • paul wenum

    No, my friend his IQ is at least 120 and mine is probably 10? Especially when I take on you. You must be off the chart I assume? At least you state same, don’t you?

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