Global-warming zealots to ban ice makers

icemakerEnergy efficiency standards to expand scope of product confiscation

Washinton Times Editorial

Ice makers are the latest target in the left’s ongoing war against the conveniences of modern life. Earlier this month, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) issued a report that may condemn this essential household item to the contraband list that already includes functional light bulbs, toilets, washing machines and showerheads.

Those looking for an easy way to cool down their drinks with ice cubes are guilty of increasing their refrigerator’s energy consumption by about 12 to 20 percent. That’s unacceptable to global-warming alarmists at the Department of Energy (DOE) who are hard at work finalizing regulatory standards for the fridge. The proposed changes will increase prices by an estimated $2 billion per year, but DOE justifies this added expense by claiming consumers would save $37 in electricity costs over the lifetime of a typical side-by-side.

Read the rest at the Washington Times.

133 Responses to Global-warming zealots to ban ice makers

  1. paul wenum April 25, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    Nothing changes does it. May as well go back to when I was a boy and get an old icebox where we received ice in a block one a week they kept under sawdust. I can see it comin! Typical progressives, or should I say regressives.

  2. NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 25, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    This is just outrageous! These people are out of their minds! I work on refrigerators, and I can tell you as an expert (yes Rob you heard right, I actually am an expert on this issue) on residential refrigerators that the only way you can increase power consumption 12-20 percent is if you dispence ice repeatedly throughout the day. I can see how a large family might use that much ice, but the average use is about maybe 4-5 uses of the dispenser per day. And the dispenser motor has the highest power consumption rate of the average ice maker/dispenser system. There is no way it increases the power consumption of the refrigerator by 12-20 percent. It is simply not true.
    This is also touching on something that just irks me. And that is the premise that we have to use less energy. The reason they say we need to use less energy is to reduce greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming….. Hello!?!?!?!?!? It is not happening folks. There is simply no evidence, other than flawed computer models, that says increased emissions of CO2 are causing warming. It certainly is not reflected in actual temperature recordings. It is a lie predicated upon a lie……

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 26, 2011 at 5:23 am #

      BTW, the average life of a typical side-by-side refrigerator is 10-15 years. So $37.00 spread across the lifetime of a typical side-by-side is around $2.50-$3.00 a year. I have to say, I think NIST is in the pocket of Big Global Warming!!!!

  3. paul wenum April 25, 2011 at 9:33 pm #


  4. Rob N. Hood April 26, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    Neil, you truly are a savant. Even though this is your area of expertise, your Absolute surety of your opinions astound. This is truly a horrific assault against the lazy who cannot fill an ice tray with water and place it into the freezer. We should continue making life easier and more guilt-free for the lazy. It’s the American way-no?

    • Jerk A. Knot April 26, 2011 at 1:59 pm #


      Do You have an Ice Maker in your house?

      Just wondering.

      • Rob N. Hood April 27, 2011 at 9:56 am #

        What a question- obviously no… And Neil- you’re projecting your own massive absurdity onto me. I utilize logic, reason and intelligent humor. Absurdity is truly and accurate word for many of you on the right.

        Blaming green energy initiatives for driving up prices, House Republicans are planning to hold hearings on a slurry of bills aimed at expanding domestic oil production in response to high gasoline prices. Even though this is not accurate as 99% of the experts admit, and other opinions re: this fact are absurd, uninformed, or moronic (the use of magical/childish thinking).

        But it should be easy enough to fight back. While the five biggest oil companies report historically high profit earnings, the same GOP that would slash juice programs for poor kids in school stands firm for federal subsidies for big oil. Way to go Republicans!

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 26, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

      Nonsense! As though you are not sure of your own opinions? Your statement is absurd on it’s face. Why are you here?

      • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 26, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

        Oh, and BTW there are plenty of people who need ice for medical conditions who can’t twist the tray to dump ice into a bucket. It is also a modern convenience like washing machines, and dishwashers. Perhaps we should go back to pounding our laundry with rocks in a stream, or using sand to scour our pots and pans. Just think of the energy we could save by banning microvave ovens. Where does it end? Why are you here?

  5. Rob N. Hood April 27, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    Poor Neil… grasping at straws to maintain his cognitive dissonence and delusion of ability to react rationally. BTW- using a micro-wave is much more energy efficient than firing up the stove. Sheesh Neil- I thought you were an expert…

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 27, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

      I know microwaves use about 1/3 of the energy of a conventional oven. You claim to utilize logic, reason, and intelligent humor, I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on the fact that that was my point of using microwave ovens as an example. And, FYI, I don’t work on cooking products, that is an assumption on your part.
      Actually I don’t see any logic, reason, or humor of any kind in your posts. We just get the same old lame demagoguery about taking juice away from poor children, making old people eat dog food, blahbady, blah, blah, yackety shmack. Why are you here?

  6. Rob N. Hood April 27, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    I have to re-post your statement re: microwaves to rebut your above nonsensical defensive stance: “Just think of the energy we could save by banning microvave ovens. Where does it end?”

    You say NOTHING about them being more efficient than anything else. Are we supposed to read between the lines on your comments so they make sense? I guess so. Thanks for the heads up on that.

  7. Rob N. Hood April 27, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Oh, sorry, I didn’t answer your seemingly rhetorical uestion, which could be asked anyone who posts comments (i.e. and absurd and personal question). Actually this has been asked of me before, several times, and I believe I have tried to answer it every time, out of courtesy, if nothing else. The only answer I have left is perhaps the most honest- to hold you Rightys accountable for your BS and if you become annoyed in the process, well that’s just a bonus for me. You folks cannot seem to handle logic and reason too well, not to mention established facts. I find it amusing, but also alarming too. You all are surreal to me. I guess I have to come back just to confirm that such “real” people like you exist. It would be otherwise impossible, almost, to believe it, without you’re nonsensical and illogical comments. I know this sounds rude to you, but if no one is honest with you how could you otherwise even begin any kind of real introspection. But I trust there’s no real danger of you doing that… So bottom line is amusement, dark humor, from you cave-dwellers. How’s that for an answer and honesty? Somehow I don’t expect anything positive from any of you re: that question. And that’s sad.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 27, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

      Thank you Rob. You’ve just confirmed everything I ever thought about you.

  8. paul wenum April 27, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Robbie Boy is a Soro’s plant. Either that or he had a hell of a childhood. His glass is always half empty, if he even actually exists. Nothing changes with him does it?

  9. paul wenum April 27, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    “Media Matters” et al is who you represent, “Robbie “BOY,” That’s right, Boy. If you are who you profess to be I now see why the left/left will lose major in 2012. Can visualize you in your dorm sucking on a sucker as “a sucker” as the real people pay your bills. You claim to work three jobs? What are they? Soro’s, Media Matters, DNC et al? You bore me as well as others and your posts knocking Neil as well as others (I could care less about me) are totally abnormal. Suggest that you see a professional. Opps, forgot, you are one but you have three jobs to make ends meet? Bad first, second, third interview? Only you know! Get real!

    • Rob N. Hood April 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

      You guys continue to refuse to learn anything new about anyone or anything. Do you really think that you are open minded, curious, flexible, nimble minded? Your responses are very consistently the opposite of that. After all of my sarcasm and accurate observations of this state of affairs I really thought you’d at least try to change some of it, even slightly. But no. So you see, nothing changes with you guys (Paul) and you always confirm everything I eve thought about you (Neil). The same self-righteous egotistical mind set runs deep on the Right (Donald Trump).

      Why do I have to keep correcting you Paul?? I have two jobs, said that many times. Why can’t you guys at least get the simple facts straight? And we are all supposed to beleive that you can get global warming right? Really? Wow- keep going and your ego might become as big as numbskull Trump’s.

  10. Rob N. Hood April 28, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    So much for your willingness and ability for introspection. Maybe Neil should look up the definition and post it. That might help… While you’re at it Neil post the definition for hypocrite.

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

      Arrogant: 1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance. 2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one’s superiority toward others.
      Snide: Derogatory in a malicious, superior way.
      Insult: 1. a. To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness. b. To affront or demean. 2. Obsolete To make an attack on. v.intr. Archaic 1. To behave arrogantly. 2. To give offense; offend.

      Sorry, I know those aren’t the words you wanted me to look up, but they are the ones that pop into my head most often when I read your posts.

      • Rob N. Hood April 30, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

        Of course you need to change the subject, dismiss what I post…. I understand that.

  11. Hal Groar April 28, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    Rob I am eager to see your logic…when will you begin to use it? ” Reason” I think might be out of your reach and as far as intelligent humor…well that by itself is a joke. To make sure I have this right…you think an ice maker on a refrigerator makes a person lazy? Does running water also make a person lazy because they didn’t stand outside in the rain and hand pump a 5 gallon bucket out of the ground? I see you shacked up in a one room hut in the northwest corner of Montana with a two week growth of facial hair cursing the evil neighbors who use lights at night to play games with their children. Your opinions are ridiculous and this so called wisdom you claim to possess has escaped even my 10 year old daughter. Robbie, WHY ARE YOU HERE?

    • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 28, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

      I am ROTFLMAO! Rob thinks he’s going to change us! What a hoot! My brother, who is mentally ill, is bi-polar, alcaholic, and schizophrenic, had a dream once. He told me about it and I never forgot it. He said he was at a zoo, and there was an Elephant. There was a sign that said “Don’t feed the Elephant!” But he wanted to give it some peanuts, so he grabs a handful and offers them to the Elephant. The Elephant grabs him with his trunk, and slams him down to the ground! Then for some reason, he gets up and grabs another handful of peanuts, and offers them to the Elephant again. And again the Elephant picks him up and slams him down to the ground! He repeated this over, and over, until he woke up. He said as soon as he woke up he understood the significance of the dream. It had to do with the definition of insanity, that is, repeating the same behavior over, and over, and expecting a different outcome.
      Rob, we’re not going to eat the peanuts!!!!

      • Dan McGrath April 28, 2011 at 11:53 pm #

        Before Rob chimes in with freudian symbology, perhaps your brother subconsciously recognized that Republicans are offended by hand-outs? Still, If I was offered a peanut, I’d just say “no thank you,” instead of thrashing the poor soul who tried to offer it!

        That said, I get your point.

        • Hal Groar April 29, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

          It would depend on who was offering the peanut and if they were warned.

          • Rob N. Hood May 1, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

            Explain please. I don’t get it.

          • Dan McGrath May 2, 2011 at 11:04 am #

            The elephant is the mascot of the Republican Party.

      • Rob N. Hood April 29, 2011 at 9:26 am #

        I believe I conceded the realization that I wasn’t going to change any of you Ditto-heads who post here, many times at that and again in another post. I realize there are others reading this other than you zombies and your ignorance and stubborness has been on display for all to see. Just like Trump going on any and all shows he can to show his insanity, you all cannot resist the urget o put me in my place and try to show that you can match my logic and reasoning. You have failed, and continue to do so even though I have been honest with you about why “I’m here.”

        Why are you here? There’s no challenge (except from me, and occasionally V), just an echo chamber, a circle jerk. The average righty extremist loves it that way. No reason for introspection, uncertainty, soul searching, reality searching… just simple and easy confirmation from other extremists. Iknow one person who has apprecated me- Dan M. Without me this site would have been a boring dead-end all along. I am about to force myself to let you all wallow in your self-perpetuating ignorance and self-rightousness, because you all have no real curiosity or imagination. You are stunted intellectually and spiritually. I feel sorry for you and for America to have to suffer such foolishness. And I’m NOT referring to global warming (sorry Mr. Anal) but everything else. You people are one dimensional, and I hate to tell you this however reality is anything but.

      • Rob N. Hood April 29, 2011 at 9:29 am #

        At last Neil admits his insanity…

        • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD April 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm #


          • Hal Groar April 29, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

            Neil how many times do I have to tell you not to admit your insanity?! Although it got Rob to admit to his “accident” involving a sharpie and a naval ring.

          • Rob N. Hood April 30, 2011 at 5:57 pm #


    • Rob N. Hood April 29, 2011 at 9:17 am #

      And you believe your post is intelligent?! It is not. We both can’t be right, so that is where introspection plays a part. However, egotistical Rightys never consider anything other than they are correct, always, and never waver, never let even a crack open up in their minds- keep them closed and opinionated, after all isn’t that why God gave you that “powerful” brain? What a waste…

      • Rob N. Hood April 29, 2011 at 9:34 am #

        Above was to Hal. And just to set you straight I only have a three days growth of beard, not two weeks. (I remain off work due to an accident). And I am crushed, just crushed, that your 10 year old daughter doesn’t understand me. Is that why you don’t either? Do you have the sophistication and intelligence of a 10 year old? That would indeed explain some things…

  12. paul wenum April 28, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    Hal, excellent question to the Robbie entity.

  13. Rob N. Hood April 29, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    Oh, Dan please enlighten me as to what Freudian symbology you expected from me. Once again your obscure thinking process, and your lame powers of assumption, has me stumped.

  14. paul wenum April 29, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    Robbie, suggest you shave.

  15. Rob N. Hood April 30, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Thanks Dad…

  16. Rob N. Hood April 30, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    What we ‘understand’ is that we cannot have both corporate would-be oligarchs with unlimited wealth and power, and their bribed apologist flacks in Congress for that matter, and Democracy (which includes programs given to us via that institution such as Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare).

    One has got to go. For most the choice is not that difficult.

    • V May 2, 2011 at 6:14 am #

      You’re fighting a losing battle here Robin, you’ve won in every aspect and it is apparent to anyone that is actually following the comments, but if you think you’ll convert them you’re fooling yourself.

      You’re dealing with selfish people. All they care about is themselves. They could care less if future generations are educated, or healthy, or safe. All they care about is a 10% increase in their bank accounts. They’re not willing to share their wealth for the good of man kind. They don’t get it. Not because they can’t (Neil sometimes accidently shows his ability to comprehend) but because they won’t. They won’t admit to the fact that the social programs that they are trying to minimize are the reason for our current technological state. They won’t admit that our actions (anthropogenic) affect the climate. They get it. They’re just a bunch of lying selfish people that could care less if the earth stopped spinning the day they stop breathing. No regard for others.

      If you think you can change them you’re wrong. It’s not that they don’t understand you, they’re unwilling to listen. Why are you here? Leave them to have their empty nonsensical discussions on their own. Yup, no global warming here, aha, yup, it’s not real just look, aha, one day it’s warm outside the next is cold, see, aha, hehe, the climate changes naturally, yup. Now I’m gonna go play my banjo and drink me moonshine and you should go somewhere where people actually concede when losing arguments and quit beating the dead horse. They know you’re right Rob but they’ll never admit it, go find like minded people and leave these ones to their delusions.

  17. Rob N. Hood May 2, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    Thank you V. I think I have been waiting for someone to tell me this exact thing. I thought no one ever would. I just needed some small validation, and you provided it. Thank you very much. That’s why I persisted. I was glad, though, that it seemed only a few cracked die hards (myself included) were practically the only ones visiting this biased and right-wing funded site. Now the die hards can ridicule and dismiss both of us. Can insulate themselves in smug self-rightousness. Good bye (I hope).

    • Dan McGrath May 2, 2011 at 11:07 am #

      Global Climate Scam actually gets really good traffic – our highest-traffic site – just not a lot of commentators.

  18. Rob N. Hood May 2, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Duh, Dan… what is freudian about that???

    I’m happy for you and your high traffic. I played a small part in that I’m sure. For the haters…

    The president contends that years of meticulous intelligence, and an air assault by US special forces, resulted in the death of Osama bin Laden.

    Not so.

    It was a crack team of donald trump’s invisible investigators (prolly led by chuck norris) that infiltrated the bin Laden compound and throat-punched his one way ticket to hell. Only “the donald” could be this amazing.

    And “the donald” wants EVERYONE to know how proud and honored he is to be so amazing. He’s proud to be honored, and honored to be amazing. He’s honored to be proud, and amazing to be honored. He’s……well, you get the drift.

    There’s just one last thing trump wants you to know.

    He’s very, very successful. Oh, and he’s a genius. And he’s got a reality show. And he enjoys a great relationship with the blacks.

    • V May 3, 2011 at 12:58 am #

      I’m pretty sure Dan is subliminally pointing to political party symbolism. A donkey which is a stubborn animal by nature and is such because of a strong sense of self preservation, is used to symbolize the democratic party. But what must be taken into account, as per Freudian rules, is that the democratic party when in power is the state of the country, the donkey is the country itself, and the donkey cares for itself. In other words the democrats (the liberals) care for the country.

      Elephants symbolize the wise, the ones with accumulated knowledge, the republicans (conservatives) are memory based, they act upon rules set forth.

      Liberals don’t apply set rules, they act upon stimuli -like the stubborn mule- the mule will not walk off a cliff just because that is the set route. When the donkey sees dangers he rejects protocol (the set rules) and acts accordingly.

      If the elephant is the smart creature and elephants represent republicans then republicans are smart creatures. This is true. The donkey chooses what’s best. If a donkey sees dangers you can pull him and coax him toward but the donkey will steer clear. The donkey reasons. He will not go in the wrong direction.

      Symbolism. The elephant has memory and the donkey has creativity.

  19. Rob N. Hood May 2, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    see above re: the elephant symbolism question…

    • V May 3, 2011 at 1:26 am #

      That is actually a perfect example of republican misconception. The donkey, democratic symbol, is a creature that cares for itself. A republican, who is self centered, sees the donkey as the symbol of selfishness, but what the don’t account for is the fact that democrats care for all people, the democrats act for themselves, but each individual democrat views all other individuals as equals, therefore if you (as the self) care for yourself you must equally care for those that are equal to you, as a result we care for each other

      The democrats use the donkey to show that they will go only in the right direction. The republicans use the elephant to show that they know what the right direction is.

      • Rob N. Hood May 3, 2011 at 7:38 am #

        Touche, V. I knew Dan could never explain his own insinuation, and alleged slam against me, someone who is educated in psychology. That said, your treatise is only borderline Freudian. But very good anyway, thank you. Dan’s premise was flawed, as usual, so you did well.

  20. Rob N. Hood May 2, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    I need some ice but too lazy to fill an ice tray with water… Now this- gosh the oil economy is complicated:

    The issue of oil is closely intertwined with that of the dollar, because the dollar’s status as the world’s reserve currency depends largely on OPEC’s decision to denominate the dollar as the currency for OPEC oil purchases. Today’s petrodollar economy dates back to two secret agreements with the Saudisi n the 1970s for the recycling of petrodollars back into the US economy. The first of these deals assured a special and on-going Saudi stake in the health of the US dollar; the second secured continuing Saudi support for the pricing of all OPEC oil in dollars. These two deals assured that the US economy would not be impoverished by OPEC oil price hikes. Since then the heaviest burden has been borne instead by the economies of less developed countries, who need to purchase dollars for their oil supplies.16 As Ellen Brown has pointed out, first Iraq and then Libya decided to challenge the petrodollar system and stop selling all their oil for dollars, shortly before each country was attacked.

    But dammit, I’m an American and want what I want when I want it! Like a two year old, kinda. What’s wrong with that? And we’ll defend that sentiment with young armed soldiers, so watch out!

  21. paul wenum May 2, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    Watch out for those lizards in Texas and New Mexico. Ooh well, what’s 20% of our oil? Sierra Club et al does not care I assume? Why purchase from Brazil what we presently have? Duh. American’s are not stupid as depicted by the media.

  22. NEIL F. AGWD/BSD May 3, 2011 at 5:21 am #

    Hey, did anyone hear that global warming is a scam?

  23. Rob N. Hood May 3, 2011 at 7:42 am #

    And that has to do with Freud how? And thanks to Mr. Anal trying to keep us in line… To Paul, they are drilling in ND and WY again, but that ain’t good enough? You want America to turn into one big oil field? Really? Thank you, but no thanks. Most American’s have more character than that. At least I sincerely hope so. Sure glad you aren’t Secretary of the Interior. We’d have to dump you like Mr. dirty-sky Watts.

  24. Rob N. Hood May 3, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Freud would say “sometimes the trunk of an elephant is just the trunk of an elephant”. Ok Dan? I’m not really a Freudian, just a common sense commoner who employs dispassionate logic and reason to all things, as much as possible. And yes I was aware of the Republican symbolism… Maybe you can write your own version of a Freudian response to that, go for it.

    Random Analogy: As a prisoner of war you are expected to 1. attempt escape, 2. harrass the enemy as much as possible. While I have been fairly good at #2, I need to work on #1. Perhaps a tag-along analogy would be that of a mental health hospital. A combination thereof… Harrassing the enemies of democracy and logic is often fun and rewarding in a warped way, but it can be addicting. You will miss me when I’m gone. I know you will never admit that…

    • V May 3, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

      They don’t have to admit it. It has already been found to be true. They didn’t stop talking about you during your absence. They missed you so much they got delusional. They kept trying to prove that I (V) was you (Rob N. Hood). How insane is that? And then we are accused of drug use, lol. I’m pretty sure paranoia arises out of hallucinations which can be manifested by way of hallucinogens. If they can’t differentiate me from you how can they differentiate between which party is best for the country? Here’s a clue: they can’t. They don’t know squat. Keep ripping into them Rob. I was wrong. I find it rather humorous seeing them try to contest your points. The humorous part is when they think they’re winning. Lol. Delusional much? They make republicans look worse than they are, and that’s not easy to do. Absolutely no cognitive abilities. No intelligence. No logic. No problem solving skills. Unreasonable. They have no idea what they are talking about but it is so cute watching them try, and fail, time after time after time. A note to republicans: just because you believe something to be true does not make it so. But it is so funny when you profess it to be. Don’t listen to them Rob, without your ridicule reading the comments on here would just not be the same.

      Dan, your site is great. I like that you focus on the political side of climate change rather than the scientific. Many sites out there focus on the sciences, I like the fact that you focus on the political implications. You’re doing a great job with the site.

      • NEIL F. AGWD/BSD May 3, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

        Insisting that you are right does not mak it so.

      • Dan McGrath May 4, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

        The issue IS a political one – not an environmental one.

        • V May 5, 2011 at 12:27 am #

          And here is another political issue: neither republican nor democrat is complete enough to run the country, only republican and democrat are. Only centrists are fit to make collective decisions accounting for all factors, unbiased. Centrists are socially responsible (as the left), and fiscally responsible (like the right). The ideals of the left are preferential, they are growth inducing, but the left has tendency for frivolous spending. The right is not socially responsible, cutting social programs is a backward step in societal evolution, the last 100 years have been a technological marvel. This has been due in part to education, healthcare, defense, safety, assistance, infrastructure… The point we are at right now as a civilization is due to social programs. Could we all be talking now if we all went at it alone? Humans are meant to form societies, relations are lives, without relations the world is meaningless, the more social programs we have the more advanced we become. The right is looking at which programs to cut and/or minimize while the left is looking at which ones to add and/or maximize. A centrist outlook is as follows: maximize quantity and/or quality lower cost. Centrism is about smart fiscal socialism, we keep growing social programs (evolving), but are doing it cost consciously. Double whammy. Without investmenting into the society we can’t grow. It takes money to make money. Both democrats and republicans are dangerous, that’s why they tend to alternate, one fixes the others errors. The simple solution is to stop erroring. Be both socially responsible and fiscally responsible. Civilization doesn’t work without either or both of them. Republicans are memory based inside the box thinkers, democrats are out of the box thinkers (cognitive problem solvers), these two attributes are complimentary, a leader requires both memory and creativity. Centrism involves both sides of the spectrum, left and right.

          • V May 5, 2011 at 12:31 am #

            investment or investing not both

        • V May 5, 2011 at 12:34 am #

          Keep your icemaker and run it on solar energy.

  25. NEIL F. AGWD/BSD May 3, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    I have to say Rob, and V are out of my league. I don’t know what to say. They are doing a great job of derailing the discussion. They are doing their best to try to draw me into an argument, but I just can’t find the words to say anymore. I believe I have reached a level of maximum futility.
    I am very passionate about AGW. I know in my heart that it is a lie. I can’t find any evidence, other than predictions from the IPCC, activist scientists like Mann, Schmidt, Hansen, et al, and computer modeling, that there is any warming due to anthropogenic release of CO2, or that there is even any warming in the last decade period.
    I like this site because of the like minded individuals that post comments, and the articles that I read here. It’s nice to see that there are others who think the same things that I do about these issues. But I just can’t deal with these Leftists anymore. At least, not in a way that will be allowed by Dan. So I’m out. It was fun for a while, but now it is just boring to read the Leftist’s views on a daily basis. If I want that view I’ll go read buzzflash, which is where Rob gets most of his material from anyway. So long.

    • Rob N. Hood May 4, 2011 at 7:46 am #

      Quitter. Like Palin…? I would think with all the “facts” on your side you’d feel more confident. V and I ruined this for you? Really? Wow. Thanks for all that power… it’s starting to go to my head I think. A little (very little) challenge to your “reality” and you can’t take it? You’ll be back,especially when I quit posting, hopefully soon. Won’t be the same without you.

  26. paul wenum May 3, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    An Elephant never forgets. Never forget that. As to other disagreeing parties, no comment. I see their pictures daily. Neil, simply be yourself and don’t pontificate like others. I’m guilty of that as well. My God, must be global warming it was warm tonight and grilled venison burgers and grilled them good, something like OBL? SEALS are good at what they do, aren’t they? San Diego is a very relaxing city by the way. Oops, that’s right, he’s gone. Sorry, but that made my day and President Obama, finally had some ….s and I’m proud of his action, about time. Thought liberal/progressives were wimps. Would have shot off my ammo but it may have ticked off the neighbors. There’s always tomorrow if another OBL should arise. God forbid.

  27. Rob N. Hood May 4, 2011 at 7:41 am #

    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the the universe.”

    -albert einstein

  28. Evan Foster May 4, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    I’m not reaaly sure who to believe, but now the “global warmers” are attacking the ice for my vodka and tonic. Chill out guys!

  29. Rob N. Hood May 5, 2011 at 6:46 am #

    See Einstein’s quote Evan. You posted at exactly the right spot! Uncanny. Maybe us Liberals will attack your tonic next… so watch out!!!

  30. Rob N. Hood May 5, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    So is gun-toting Elmer Fudd.

  31. paul wenum May 5, 2011 at 10:55 pm #

    V, Robbie Boy, when you grow up and see the world as it is we can talk. Absent that it is a worthless cause. Yes, I must be a slow walking “elephant.” Is that a dig Dan, or are you trying to make a point? Curious as I always am.

  32. paul wenum May 5, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    By the way, nice picture Rob.

  33. Rob N. Hood May 6, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    Just because you “see” the world a certain way doesn’t make that “the” reality. Yours, and mine) biases, experiences, and brain traits, influence this to such a degree we all tend to beleive our reality is the ultimate reality and everyone else should follow it or see it that way. That is the first and probably biggest mistake humans make when trying to survive and intereact with their fellows. That is an ego-centric, selfish, and myopic way to live. It gets you no where but frustration, bigotry, hatred, and intolerance. We all do this to a degree, myself included of course. The key is to acknowledge this “flaw” which it is.

  34. paul wenum May 6, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Robbie Boy, do you ever talk normal? Seriously!

  35. Rob N. Hood May 7, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    Seriously? All the time. Sorry it is greek to you Paul… to add to the above, it is also the major cause of most fatal conflicts such as wars. Just sayin’.

  36. paul wenum May 7, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    Being in other countries over the years, talking, living with and knowing them, now that is “reality” be you an “Elephant of a “jackass.” Experience is a wonderful thing. Until you experience do not lecture.

    • Rob N. Hood May 8, 2011 at 10:59 am #

      Cop out, self-rightous response. So easy to say, to deflect and ignore anyone else’s logic and reason. It’s also an old old right-wing chestnut, talking point response. Well tested and utilized… more cliches from a wing-nut. What a surprise. How un-helpful and formulaic, just like the entire Rightwing. Let’s solve our problems… instead of being hypocrites and knee-jerk jerks…. Nah, cuz then things would be really boring then, eh? Gotta have conflict, hatred, distrust, etc. Right? That’s what the elite want from us. They know how to pull the strings… they own the strings, and you on the Right dance away with glee. Lovin being automatons. Thinking all the while you are independent critical thinkers. What can’t money buy??!!!

  37. paul wenum May 8, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    What can’t money buy? Ask the Democrats when it comes to unions. That will tell you a lot won’t it. Oops, forgot Dems don’t want to devulge their union contributors only corporations. Never changes.

  38. Rob N. Hood May 9, 2011 at 6:45 am #

    Unions aren’t the problem… anyone able to reason logically knows that. Only the brainwashed say such things. How does it feel to be a tool for the wealthy? Citizen’s United made it legal for all groups, unions and Corporations alike, to keep the money sources secret. It’s an even playing field that way, so your argument is what now? Illogical and inaccurate? As usual…

  39. Jerk A. Knot May 9, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    WOW I missed a doozie!!!!! You guys have been killing V & Robbie boy….. Iam so sorry I missed all the fun.

    I found your post about Republicians not caring way off base. I have spent the last 7 days with a great number of my Republican friends digging hundres of homes out from the aftermath of the Tornados here in the south. I have two rental properties that were unoccupied that I am letting 2 different fammilies live in (rent Free) untill they can get back on there feet. My Company sent our 2 dilivery trucks 150 miles away 5 days straight to get pallets of ICE to bring to families living out of Coolers. You see food spoils w/o power to the refrigerator (350000 people with no power for 7 days). If you say we dont care you have no idea who we are. Yes I want my 10% and I want you to get yours also. I want everyone to have the ability to get there 10%. I don’t want people to be made into wellfair sucking clones that con not get of the Government milk bottle. My CO. makes 33 to 35% profit every year. last year only 29%. We hire mostly unskilled people and train them up. that makes them so much more loyal and dedicated. If we hit a bump and crash heaven forbid they will have skills to leverage for reemployment. Also all 6 of our officers are Republicans. Most of my work force is of a minority demografic. It is the same for 90% of the CO’s we partner or compete with.

    Robbie boy you are just insane.

  40. Rob N. Hood May 9, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    Really Jerk? Another deluded view of reality? Guess so… Your personal story is just anecdotal and while you pat yourself on your own back it does nothing to explain prevailing reality, and the rest of your right-wing ilk. You are using another simplistic and meaningless method of argumentation. But hey, you are a heckuva guy doing a heckuva job!

    • Jerk A. Knot May 11, 2011 at 9:53 am #

      Thank you for diminishing the point by trying to make me into a self grandizing a—-hole. What have you done for your neighbor BUDDY??? [DELETE!]

      • V May 11, 2011 at 11:24 am #

        [This personal attack-filled comment has been preempted by the moderator.

        Stick to issues, not personalities and ad homonym attacks. Entire comment threads will be deleted if the level of discourse continues on this path.]

  41. Rob N. Hood May 9, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    And hint: many insane people think sane people are insane. Just sayin’.

  42. paul wenum May 9, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    Sir Knot, When Katrina hit by brother, a republican, sent thousands of toothbrushes, toothpaste, et al to help them. Purely out of his pocket. Others joined as well for thousands of dollars out of their personal pocket to help out with semi-loads. Never a mention in the media and they could care less. It was, as you, helping your friends in need with no thank you expected. He did what we were raised to do. No entitlement, simply doing the right thing. Helping your neighbors where ever they may be. Proud to see that you helped them when in dire need. Your post made my day.

    • Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 6:58 am #

      Sir Paul, that would all be well and good if what you post really did solve serious problems most of the time. But it does NOT, unfortunately. That is reality. What you are talking about is “magical thinking.” An immature and illogical way of perceiving challenges and realistic compassionate solutions.

  43. V May 10, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    You don’t understand the political spectrum. Most republicans are not full on conservatives on the right. Most republicans fall inbetween center and right. Opposite works for democrats, most are not fully on the left but are inbetween center and left.

    Knot, you are not a full on right winger and neither are your friends. Paul, your brothers act is not a republican act but a democrat one. Knot, I commend you for your actions but you must understand the difference here. The tornadoes and the destruction they caused opened your eyes to the suffering and it moved you into action. This is what democrats feel on a regular day. They always see need and suffering. That’s why they provide welfare for those unable to care for themselves to keep them from starvation, roof over their heads etc. Supplying those in need exempts you from your contribution in my eyes and I hope you will file for a tax exemption for what you have done to help. Your act is one of pure kindness Sir Knot. On behalf of everyone I thank you for your humanitarian acts.

    That aside to reiterate and close off I will state the well known fact: republicans try to lower spending therefore reducing need for taxes whereas democrats spend more which causes raising of taxes. These are standard party practices. There are deviations but on the whole (mean) this principle holds true.

    The left seeds/grows social programs while the right works on pulling/trimming them. Are you stating that this is not true? That the right doesn’t try to cut spending? Ice costs money to produce and transport, correct? Your expenditures are tax exemptible, they have a monetary value? I’m sorry to come down on you here but it is kind of upsetting that you are picking sides here, stating you’re republican, and it seems to me that you don’t even know what the right is all about.

    If you’re employing those without experience to help your them out rather than to get cheap inexperienced laborers then your actions are leftist. If you are employing them because you know those with experience would demand higher compensation then your actions are rightist.

    • Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 7:04 am #

      Awesome analysis V. Thank you. Jerk likley won’t get it, or pretend not to. For them, anything “Left” is evil, “communistic”, anti-American, blah blah blah. He’s drunk the Kool-aid and allowed his brain to be washed. They don’t recognize hypocrisy. It’s apparenlty too deep a concept, or their defense mechanisms are too strong and crutch-like. Real introspection is either too much work or impossible for them. Oh well. So it always has been with us silly humans…

    • Jerk A. Knot May 10, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

      You are again way off…. Your anaylisis in myopic. Your back handed slap by even bringing up taxes is crazy…. We My CO always gives far beyond what can be claimed on taxes. We have given back much more percentage wise than you ever will. Both on the corporate and the personal side. Your last statement is actualy backwards. Labor is cheap in a leftist socicty. hat is why so many industries are liiking to move to China. Our motive for highering people and training them ourselves is motivate not by salries. But by the real beliefe that teaching a man to fish is better than giving him a fish. We have also found that the loyality that is bread by putting faith in the individual and his/her ability to be self reliant is far mor cost effecient for the CO then hiring drones that haveben unionized to just punch a clock and hold out there had before doing one day of work.

      • Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

        You proved my prediciton correct Jerk boy. You don’t seem to understand deeper thought and analysis. And blaming poor wages on Leftism is absurd. Completely absurd. What that is is market capitalism. You should know and defend your religion, Capitalism, better than that…

        • Jerk A. Knot May 10, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

          Robie Boy…. Again you shoy how little you know about the world. I have been in most every country in the world. In left leaning countries the worker is the lowest paid person…. He/she works long hours for very little. In captilist Countries the worker is able to market there skills for better pay. That is one of the reasons the Western countries quality of life is higher. Of course being stuck in your purple haze of ink it is hard to see. You really need to come with me the next time I go to South America. I can show you stark contrasts between capitilistic countries like Brazil and left wing socialist countries like Venizuala…. who dispite it large oil reserve has one of the lowest standards of living in SA….

          Thank you for showing how lies control your life and deception is your motto.

          • Rob N. Hood May 12, 2011 at 8:38 am #

            So you are saying you believe in quality education for our citizens? Including affordable post-secondary? Hear hear! Totally! Now- put your money and your politics where your mouth is… or not. I’ll guess… not.

  44. paul wenum May 10, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    Sir Knot, according to Robbie Boy and V, what I’m readind is the only time a republican/conservative serves humanity by helping others is that we are all now Democrats? What? I always thought, as well as taught as a child to treat others as I would expect to be treated in a time of loss be it financial, personal et al . Believe compassionate/caring to others is the word. [DELETED]

  45. Rob N. Hood May 11, 2011 at 9:04 am #

    Paul, what a sad side-step to the valid and insightful post from V. You all continue to interpret the world in unsophisticated and even child-like ways. You cannot seem to recognize “truth” about anything, even when it bites you on the arse. Very sad, for all of us. Luckily you constitute, at the most, on average, 1/3 of the voting population (thus the attack on voting rights, targetting traditionally democrat leaning voters). The Right will stop at nothing and there is no stooping too low for many of them, especially the powerful ones. [DELETE]

  46. paul wenum May 11, 2011 at 11:04 pm #

    So what I’m reading is Republicans only care when they are in need and it personally effects them but Democrats feel it daily? Give me a break. Someone has lost realty.

  47. Rob N. Hood May 12, 2011 at 8:35 am #

    Yep, you got it! Finally, you are paying attention and got something right! Congrats Paul.

  48. paul wenum May 12, 2011 at 10:24 pm #

    My God, I must have a fever. I’m delusional after reading Robbie Boy. Right out of the playbook of Soros. Man, I hope you are paid good!

    • Dan McGrath May 12, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

      Ad homonym.

  49. Rob N. Hood May 14, 2011 at 8:23 am #

    Is Soro’s “playbook” the same one other wealthy elite use too? Or is it different? If so, how is it different?

  50. paul wenum May 14, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    On to other subjects that have true meaning.

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