Has Anyone Read the Copenhagen Agreement?

Lord Monckton in St. Paul

U.N. plans for a new ‘government’ are scary

By Janet Albrechtsen

We can only hope that world leaders will do nothing more than enjoy a pleasant bicycle ride around the charming streets of Copenhagen come December. For if they actually manage to wring out an agreement based on the current draft text of the Copenhagen climate-change treaty, the world is in for some nasty surprises. Draft text, you say? If you haven’t heard about it, that’s because none of our otherwise talkative political leaders have bothered to tell us what the drafters have already cobbled together for leaders to consider. And neither have the media.

Enter Lord Christopher Monckton. The former adviser to Margaret Thatcher gave an address at Bethel University in St. Paul, Minnesota, earlier this month that made quite a splash. For the first time, the public heard about the 181 pages, dated Sept. 15, that comprise the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change—a rough draft of what could be signed come December.

So far there have been more than a million hits on the YouTube post of his address. It deserves millions more because Lord Monckton warns that the aim of the Copenhagen draft treaty is to set up a transnational “government” on a scale the world has never before seen.

The “scheme for the new institutional arrangement under the Convention” that starts on page 18 contains the provision for a “government.” The aim is to give a new as yet unnamed U.N. body the power to directly intervene in the financial, economic, tax and environmental affairs of all the nations that sign the Copenhagen treaty.

Read the rest at Wall Street Journal.

57 Responses to Has Anyone Read the Copenhagen Agreement?

  1. Jeanette Charpentier October 29, 2009 at 1:13 pm #

    Jeanette Charpentier October 29 at 9:59am
    I believe that the Constitution Of The United States should NEVER be tampered with EVER. It should always stand just as our Founding Fathers had written it to be. The blood shed for it means alot to ME. We were founded on Christianity. Under GOD, and FREEDOM FOR ALL. Those things should NEVER BE CHANGED! I LOVE my Country and I believe for what it stands and it’s NOT what the administration is doing. And our Elderly should NOT have to suffer for the people who weren’t born here. I will one day want to retire and I want to be able to enjoy my retiredment and not worry about my social security being there. Please vote NO ON BOTH ISSUES FOR ALL OF US PLEASE!!!!!

    • Bridgette Baudoin November 1, 2009 at 5:49 pm #

      I agree LEAVE OUR CONSTUTITION ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! What of my children’s sacrifice to serve our free country?!!! Should they be shunned! I don’t think so. Our country is great because of our FREEDOM and our RIGHT to belive in our own God! ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISABLE. I also love my country and hate the fact that lies are told about it. If our constution is taken away we are no more than Communistic. We don’t need a king, emperor, or a totalatirum, we need a Godly President that will serve its people not sell us out! President Obama is selling the United States OUT!!! I love my freedom and want to keep it want about you?! We can not honestly say we have a God Fearing President and if we allow him to sell us out that means what we have fought to save for centeries is in vain. Don’t let the president sell us short, SPEAK OUT!!! Please!!!! I will NOT VOTE away my freedom, if you enjoy your freedom please VOTE NO!!! to the on the issues the president wants to sign as our failure to keep our freedoms.

      • USA November 3, 2009 at 1:54 pm #

        Godly President, God Fearing President??? Since when?

      • Nigel Manson November 3, 2009 at 11:10 pm #

        The whole point is that there is a loop hole in the constitution that in real basic terms states. If the US makes a treaty with another government the treaty can then override local US and state laws. In the sense the consitution is what is loosing the US it’s freedom if the Copenhagen treaty goes ahead.
        Check this out for futher info
        DIRECT QUOTE FROM : http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/thale/lord-monckton-on-the-copenhagen-treaty
        “There has been considerable debate raised about Monckton… Read More’s conclusion that the Copenhagen Treaty would cede US sovereignty. His comments appear to be based upon his interpretation of the The Supremacy Clause i…n the US Constitution (Article VI, paragraph 2). This clause establishes the Constitution, Federal Statutes, and U.S. TREATIES as the supreme law of the land. Concerns have been raised in the past that a particularly ambitious treaty may supersede the US Constitution. In the 1950s, a constitutional amendment, known as the Bricker Amendment, was proposed in response to such fears, but it failed to pass. You can read more about the Bricker Amendment in a 1953 Time Magazine article.”

  2. Jeanette Charpentier October 29, 2009 at 1:16 pm #


  3. Hank Childs October 29, 2009 at 2:06 pm #

    It always takes longer for good science and indepth studies to come out, but thanks to The Heartland Institute’s recent study by Anthony Watts, it is now very clear that the US ground temperature sensor system (upon which all the data being used for promoting “global warming” has been based, since they decided to ignore 20 years of accurate satellite lower atmosphere data which does NOT support global warming) – is badly flawed. Watts et al inspected over 3/4 of all the US ground sensors and found that over 80% of them were badly sited according to the NOAA’s own standards – they were located upon or next to major heat sources such as asphalt parking lots, rooftops, business-sized airconditioning outlets, etc.The overall error added up to substantially more than the temp. increase claimed by the global warming advocates, which throws this entire belief into the category of urban legend – beliefs strongly held, but NOT supported by good science. I don’t know anything about the Heartland INtitute, but even if it belongs to the oil companies or other anti-GW entity, I don’t care because this work is voluminous and well done – simple but respectable scientific fact. So it is hard to avoid the conclusion that our society’s and media’s maxim for this decade “My emotions are made up, please don’t confuse me with the facts!’- is hard at work and this whole “global warming juggernaut is a colossally expensive fraud, unintentional in many cases, deliberate in others. Thus, “cap and trade” is both ignorant and irresponsible. We’d better all say NO!!!!

  4. Paul Wenum October 29, 2009 at 8:05 pm #

    Hank, Well said, And I saw “Bigfoot” last week in Minnesota. Bunk it is and bunk it will be. Climate change is “natural.” Simple.

  5. RHONDA October 29, 2009 at 10:17 pm #

    Global warming, Climate change what ever they want to call it. It is a farce. How can we tiny mortals in such a large world really be in controll of the climate. How stupid do people think we really are. It is a big lie. Some one and probably lots of someones are making millions from this. I can think of one (Al Gore). Such a waste of time and money on this.

    • sandy baer November 6, 2009 at 11:18 am #

      You hit it right on the head. The world is huge and largely unpopulated. If they would only look at a globe. Mostly water and inhospitable wasteland.

  6. Rob N. Hood October 30, 2009 at 8:55 am #

    Back in the late 1960’s we became scared of our masters. People were getting a little uppity and wanted things that enriched the heart and soul, not necessarily the wallet. The Merchants of Greed were scared by this attitude and needed it stamped out. This gave rise to the oxymoron called “Think Tanks” which on the right had the purpose of killing off such ridiculous ideas as heart, soul, community, caring, and shared sacrifice. The Heritage Foundation is a prime example.

    We work more hours for less. We see our communities decaying because the caretakers of the communities are too busy trying amass more fortune. People don’t count. What a sorry state of affairs we have come to where only money matters. Is all this a prelude to something else, like a take-over of a different kind, such as is warned by Lord M? Maybe, I don’t know of course and neither do all of you. When done right these things unfurl themselves over time, gradually. Who’s behind it all? Obama? Gore? Don’t make me laugh. If anything they are pawns in the game. It is the top elite weathly and their heirs that from generation to generation work these things out- with a little help from the military as needed. One of these families are the Bush’s, of course (simply study their history). Obama came from nowhere, Clintion from nowhere. They don’t count, except as pawns. Al Gore had a privileged life, but from a powerful family? Maybe, but not to my knowledge. The real powerful families stay in the background as much as possible- they aren’t stupid. In-bred maybe, but not stupid.

    • Mark Lamont Brown October 30, 2009 at 7:04 pm #

      Sounded almost sane, lets see how far ol Al slips further into the background….

  7. LoboSolo October 30, 2009 at 1:48 pm #

    1. A treaty does not “override” the Constitution.

    2. Ratification of a treaty requires 2/3 of the Senate (67 votes)

    • Dan McGrath October 30, 2009 at 4:38 pm #

      As far as the Supreme Court is concerned, international laws should be applied to interpreting the constitution, treaty or no.

    • Bridgette Baudoin November 1, 2009 at 6:10 pm #

      The Republicans need to Stand Up and TAKE NOTICE!!!!!!!!!! Hello! All God fearing people need to STAND UP and VOTE, but most of all PRAY for our ONE NATION UNDER GOD!! Don’t be deceived by our “so called president!”

  8. DZach October 30, 2009 at 5:43 pm #

    Obama will do whatever he wants to do, regardless of the legality of it. in his faith, Muslim, it is ok to lie as long as you are furthering the cause of Islam. Constitution or no Constitution. They are calling this thing “an agreement” so it doesn’t have to be ratified by the Senate, skirts the Constitution, just as the Czars, and the Health Care Bill and everything else they are doing. Nothing will “CHANGE” until people of the United States, stand up for the freedom they have, before they lose it. The United Nations will soon be our Governing Body because of the naive thinking of the People. Too stupid to see the writing on the wall. Or just ignorant. We will soon be under The Transnational Government and the New World Order and Our children will not be free. They will be property of the Government.
    Why do you think that all the foreigners come to America and warn us all the time about what they see. We are Blind. We don’t know any different therefore we are naive and think it will never happen to us. We have a Communist in the White House. And everyone is in love with him. So much so that they don’t care that he is using his own people to annihilate a Nation. Perfect timing in this climate of political correctness. When everyone is afraid to call a spade, a spade. We are fighting for our freedom, and we are called Bigots and Racists. Well, America used to be free. Now America is just SCARED! NOT Brave, SCARED! Afraid to LOSE, and losing everything.

    • Bridgette Baudoin November 1, 2009 at 6:13 pm #

      If we care we will VOTE NO and PRAY the God of our Fore Fathers will hear us! You are right we need to take advantage of our Constitional Right to SPEAK OUT!” Please do! Together we Stand or Divided we will FALL and great will be that fall!

  9. phil October 30, 2009 at 8:53 pm #

    in responce to the global warming scam– gods word says – the seasons will continue to come and go as long as the earth remainith

  10. paul wenum October 30, 2009 at 9:46 pm #

    Robbie Boy, The Kennedy’s perhaps? Get on subject. You are boring.

  11. researcher October 31, 2009 at 11:38 am #

    LoboSolo: pardon me but you don’t understand. Yes you are technically correct about the Constitution’s position with regard to treaty’s; but you fail to consider the fact that the current radical regime in power in the U.S. cares nothing for the Constitution. Indeed they have been pissing on it for some time. Even Bush pissed on it by beginning the unConstitutional bailouts of his buddies. BO just continued the practice to payback his SEIU buddies.

    What remains to be seen is if there are any patriots left in the U.S. for the next election cycle. Will they get off their asses this time and actually vote? Will they arrange van pools of people to go vote? That is what the Communists did.

    Another concern I have is where is our military? They are not sworn to protect a communist president if indeed he is president, they are sworn to defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign AND domestic. It seems that a White House full of Communists qualify as domestic enemies.

  12. ClydeP October 31, 2009 at 4:20 pm #

    The Lord Monckton is exposing but one tool of the New World Order. Besides the global so called crisis, economics is another tool.

    A very quick slip of the tongue was made by a senator at the moment of the Wall Street Collapse last year and the passage of the TARP scam. You know, I do not think this chap was a Democrat either.

    I distinctly remember him saying – “Finally, we are seeing the need for a New World Order” Or ” We finally are seeing the way to the New World Order.” This one, live utterance that Fox, CNN, and the rest of the networks and commentators should have been all over in a heartbeat but, nothing. The clip was not even ever shown again….

    • Bridgette Baudoin November 1, 2009 at 6:07 pm #

      We don’t need a New World Order we need our CONSTUTION!!!!!!

  13. Neil F. AGWD November 1, 2009 at 9:27 pm #

    It boils down to voting. We the people voted these people into office because we are idiots. Well, not all of us, I voted for republicans across the board. And there are 22 states that Obama lost to McCain in. But they won, and elections have consequences. The only things we can do are vote, make sure our friends and relatives vote, and volunteer to be election jugdes to make sure there is no cheating. That is really all we can do to take things back. For now all we can do is harrass the currently elected officials to vote no for this crap.

  14. Carin November 1, 2009 at 9:51 pm #

    The truly sad thing is that even if every single person of legal voting age in the US sent their congressmen a barrage of communication voicing their displeasure with the intended signing of the Copenhagen Treaty it wouldn’t do any good, it’d still get signed and ratified..

    • Neil F. AGWD November 2, 2009 at 7:26 am #

      I tend to agree with what you’re saying. But making them aware of the fact that they may not be re-elected might make them think twice. So, it is no reason to not try.

  15. paul wenum November 1, 2009 at 10:17 pm #

    Thank you Neil. It is so simple that it makes my sick. Vote them in, Vote them out. As stated, talk is cheap, actions speak.

    • Carin November 2, 2009 at 8:37 am #

      The problem is that it won’t make any difference if they don’t get voted back in.. they’ll pass it no matter what they consider the consequence to be and once it gets passed and ratified we’re all screwed.

      I don’t agree that the only way we as individuals can effect any substantial change is to get off our collective laurels and vote. Talk isn’t cheap, in fact it’s probably our only chance of surviving this current administration. The fact of the matter is, and what most conservatives and moderates in this country don’t want to admit; we aren’t necessarily the majority.

      We may think we have the best ideas but it’s rather a moot point because under our current system of governance, he who garners the most votes wins. This means that what is more important than casting votes is actually talking to our fellow Americans and trying to get them to see the light but it’s really hard to get people to vote money out of their pockets, even if it’s only the vague promise of it so we are presented with a significant challenge.

      Talking is what everyone should be doing.. it’s not enough anymore to form a line at the polls and get our “I voted” stickers.. we need some serious proselytization going on.. and quick.

  16. Stan November 2, 2009 at 1:05 am #

    Is there some kind of petition we can sign? what do we do to stop this ?

  17. JEONG cHUN PHUOC November 2, 2009 at 8:57 am #

    ” Malaysia must take initiative to re-define Climate Change Roadmap at the upcoming Copenhagen Conference 2009″

    The article “Dark Cloud over Climate Talks” by martin Khor (The Star, 12.10.2009) painted a rather dark pessimistic color to the mood at the recently concluded Climate talks in Bangkok, Thailand.

    Developed nations perceived abandonment of their current commitment under Phase One of the Kyoto Protocol (KP) is a clear indication that there is a need for a more conducive approach in addressing climate change specifically relating to greenhouse gas emissions(GGE) dilemma.

    This perception must not be viewed with pessimism or seen as a negative change of attitude by developed countries. Developing countries are also part of the problematic GGE equation apart from the Kyoto Protocol’s perceived rigid implementation platform.

    There is no denying that the Kyoto Protocol imposed binding obligations upon developed bloc. However, corresponding non-commitment/inactions by developing countries are also a collective issue.

    All signatories to the KP must therefore take the cue that if co-operation cannot be effected under the current KP, there is an urgent need to modify the ‘mitigation commitments’ by developed countries vis-vis the ‘mitigation actions’ on the part of developing countries. Such modification can be perceived as fair as it takes into view national interests and acceptable GGE achievement.

    What is of crucial importance is the underlying commitment by all members towards total, if not gradual reduction, of GGE emissions on a global scale so that 2nd Phase of the KP can be initiated without major glitch in 2013.

    Malaysia as a developing country, having achieved several milestones in its effort to implement GGE objectives, must therefore take the initiative to promote, re-ignite and re-define those ‘commitments’ in a form that are mutually acceptable to both developed and developing countries within the KP framework which is in fact, open to international modification and national interests alignment.


    Jeong Chun Phuoc

  18. angie November 2, 2009 at 11:19 am #

    Climate change is not only global….it’s Universal. We are ALL changing if we like it or not. Hang on folks…it’s a bumpy ride.

  19. Rob N. Hood November 2, 2009 at 4:32 pm #

    Uh… DZach, B. Obama is a Christian… People lie you are apparently insane with hatred. Pray for yourself.

    Angie- interesting comment. Gearing up for 2012 are you? Me too!

    And Carin- your political people had 8 years to do what they did, which got us into the economic and military crises that are cositng us all dearly. And you think voting THEM back in is the answer? Wow. Talk about masochism. Plus, you Repubs are great at talking to each other and raising the hysteria. Look at the Clinton years, you people hounded him constantly. Perhaps you need to step back and meditate and/or look at things from a different point of view. I think you have a hard time doing that. You are correct that the right-wing Republican is a minority (I believe it always was), and in a democracy such as it is, the majority sometimes DOES rule! That IS DEMOCRACY. What do you want an dictatorship?! Well Bush II tried that, and it didn’t turn out too well did it?

    • Dawn November 3, 2009 at 11:32 pm #

      Now, aren’t we getting completely off the issue here? You know, the global warming scam. The treaty that could possibly take away our DEMOCRACY. Chill out and stick to the real issue.

  20. merrirae November 2, 2009 at 7:06 pm #

    To – Rob N. Hood – Did you watch the video? Regardless of Mr. Obama’s religious affiliation, he is our President and slotted to sign this agreement. Right now the US is the most generous country and gives aid across the board from political capital all the way to various individuals donating time, money and efforts to various causes around the world. Does that give the United Nations the right to create a third arm government to impose taxation and enforcement on western countries to “pay” a “climate debt”? This will lead to a communistic form of a “world government” of which our wealth will be redistributed to less industrialized countries. That is also what is being attempted with in our own boarders now.

    As for your statement about Bush – the last two years of his Presidency the democrats had control. They did nothing to make any changes at that time. They felt they needed the great hype of the last election to take control in order to push through a seriously left-wing agenda. Now there are a couple of items I do agree with, but the majority of it is the same as the Copenhagen Agreement – redistribution of wealth.

    I like my life here in the US. I remember life during the cold war and would like not to go back to it.

  21. Charles November 2, 2009 at 7:07 pm #

    Is this guy an idiot or what? WE DO NOT MESS WITH THE CONSTITUTION

  22. Bravesoul November 2, 2009 at 7:28 pm #

    Rob N. Hood,
    Unfortunate so many of the ignorant are allowed to vote. You should study some history, or perhaps political science. Our government is not a democracy. It is a representative republic. Maybe you ought to look into what our Constitution is, what it says, and how our AMERICAN government works. Try to understand economics, politics and (real) science, you just might learn something useful and help those of us who care and fight the good fight, to maintain a free and independent America.

  23. Julie November 3, 2009 at 9:19 am #

    First, Obama is not a Muslim.

    Second, a climate treaty is no longer expected. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/1103/1224257963513.html

    I mean seriously, we can’t even get our Congress and House to get agree on anything here in the U.S. You sincerely thought the U.N. would be able to get several nations to agree to a world government?
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahah! That’s funny.

    • Witness#64 November 4, 2009 at 9:42 pm #

      Nothing is as what it seems. referencing your irishtimes.com- “Yvo de Boer, thought it was “absolutely feasible to adopt a set of decisions” that would deal with the “political essentials” of an agreement, leaving the details to be worked out later.”….this is just as bogus as the treaty! It will leave gray areas that will allow the UN to do as they please!

  24. Rob N. Hood November 4, 2009 at 10:50 am #

    Another example of this (a really good example) is abortion. Your Repubs, just recently, had 8 YEARS to make it illegal ! They had the majority for four of those years and there are plenty of anti-choice Dems out there all the time. They COULD HAVE DONE IT. But they didn’t, do you ever wonder why? I will tell you WHY if your interested, but it is pretty easy to figure out- merely common sense actually. And this is just another example of their dishonesty.

    (note- I think most of the DEMS in office are dishonest as well, even criminal. Sorry, but I can’t think of even one Repub in office that isn’t dishonest and criminal although there are always exceptions to the rule.)

  25. Triland November 4, 2009 at 4:07 pm #

    Shouldn’t everyone be more worried that the guy said that it would create a “World Government?” That is a biblical fact depicting the end times and I think people should just let the world end like it’s supposed to and get right with God.

    • Dan McGrath November 5, 2009 at 5:10 pm #

      That’s an interesting way to try to get people to do nothing, and it’s not grounded in Christian ideals. We have an obligation to stand for what’s right. We have an obligation to truth.

      Matthew 24:36-37: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

      Would you presume to know more about this than Jesus Himself? This is an interesting, different and dangerous flavor of fatalistic Kool-Aid.

  26. paul wenum November 4, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    One suggestion. Why don’t YOU run for office and change it?? Not all politicians are dishonest. They do seem to change, however, once elected. I think we all believe in that. Why do you always say “you Repubs?” as if democrats, independents are not on this site as well? They think just like you and I. Was the bully in school a republican?

  27. Danny Maness November 5, 2009 at 5:23 pm #

    You see what is happening here? Very quickly the Blog shifted to the age-old polarizing habit. As long as people continue to do this, there is no hope of making any change for the better. This is precisely what we have programmed to do for years.Its not about democrat or republican or even liberatarian. It is about being a citizen and patriot of the United States of America.
    Countless times we’ve been warned that we would fall from within. There is a group[read that.. they are united] of people with very much money and power that worship satan and are dedicated not only to having control of the whole world but reducing the population by 80 to 90 percent. They carry out satans vendetta to kill, steal, and destroy mankind every opportunity they have. Resisting them at every juncture is what it is about IF you want to stay free. Forget about petty differences and unite because your president and congress are against you.Don’t be fooled into thinking that they have even the slightest care for the people of the United States. Ron Paul is the only one that is trying to do the right thing. He needs to be supported and elected to the office of president. But he cannot do it alone. Its going to take all of us UNITED to rid the planet from the vermin that would put us in chains and kill our babies and sterilize us so we could not have the opportunity to experience the awesome act of creating and raising children. They WILL takeour freedom.It IS the midnite hour. There’s no time for petty bickering. UNITE….UNITE…UNITE. TOGETHER we can still stop them. AFTER we put them down THEN we can argue about our differences. PLEASE I beg you. WAKE UP…WAKEUP ….WAKEUP

  28. Ali Nicole November 5, 2009 at 6:44 pm #

    Why would you even think about saying yes to this “silly” treaty? There is absolutely no reason. Just say NO. DO NOT SAY YES!!! SAY NO!

  29. Rob N. Hood November 6, 2009 at 3:32 pm #

    Right on Danny, I agree. But I am doing what I am doing to try and wake people up, and it’s the best way I know how. It gets their attention, but I’m sorry, but it really does come down to that- I look at it more from a psycho-social perspective really than political. But we HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM IS WHAT WE GOT. Yes, we need to change it- many Dems agree with that, but there is a big stubborn block of Repbus that NEED TO WAKE UP. Thus me messis’ with em’ cuz they are HERE, on this site.

    Paul- why don’t you run for office. Your excuses would probably be the same as mine. However, maybe not- my reasons are this: I don’t beleive in the systme the way it is- I wouldn’t get one little toe in the door let alone my foot, and one big reason is MONEY. And all the other reasons why regular people like us are SHUT OUT. Bottom line- I believe the entire polotical process in this country is broken and CORRUPT. Why would I wan to join THAT, even if I could? And look what happened to JFK when he tried to act like a Prez with balls. And that is why Obama is acting so timid. He is basically doing what the power elite want him to. Need I say more?

  30. paul wenum November 8, 2009 at 12:22 am #

    Rob, The reason most honorable people, not the I’m honorable, choose not to run for office when they should is due to our media that digs up or makes up anything that you have done since you were born. If you farted in church at 6 years old it is in the papers as “News of the day.” This, I believe you and I agree on, honest people with honest convictions/beliefs and visions cannot, nor will not run for office. In today’s society that is so media driven to find the “dirt” on anyone is sickening to me. They don’t investigate the positive, only the negatives. I have great respect for anyone that runs for office, be it republican, democrat, independent as well as others. They, by the way, will be our future and that’s why voting COUNTS!!!!!!!

  31. Rob N. Hood November 9, 2009 at 3:52 pm #

    Sure they do this. But it is not the MAIN problem. And of course they don’t reveal EVERYTHING they dig up. All it takes is MONEY and certain things stay hidden, unless of course the thing is really bad. But even then… Just look at Iran/Contra. That was basically hidden, enough wnayway to allow Bush I to be elected office. What he was involved in when he was Vice Pres was treason, no less. There are MANY examples of this. Both Reagun and Nixon did the same thing to get elected as Pres, and the MSM added and abetted the. Your statment is very simple and naive. Very easy just to blame the media, as conservatives like to do. The media has released many things against Dems running for office, so I don’t know what you are complaining about.

  32. Paul Wenum November 9, 2009 at 9:22 pm #

    A broken record you are, a broken record you will continue to be.

  33. corneilius November 10, 2009 at 11:55 am #

    The facts are that power is exercised over living beings, human and non-human, in ways that diminish both, in ways that are degrading the abundance of the environment, in ways that are not subject to the will of the people of the land (voting changes the overall abuse not a whit, as much as switching lightbulbs will do anything other than salve a flaccid conscience).

    Whether it’s the US Government or the Iranian Government, the Catholic Church or Islam, the IMF or the WTO, decisions that are properly those of the people of the land are made by distal powers whose experience is inadequate to the task of knowing what people need and truely want, and therefore relies upon theory and belief for it’s action. Such a basis for action is bound by it’s inadequacies to cause harm.

    That harm, vast and yet somehow invisible to many, is rationalised as a ‘sacrifice’, or ‘collateral damage’ or ‘the price of freedom’ or ‘enduring freedom’ or worse, it is rationalised as evolution, the survival of the fittest, as progress.

    Until we recognise that a) we are fully of nature b) that the function of ALL living beings on Earth is to improve the habitat for ALL living beings c) that the processes of power and dominance start with the domination of our children, who become adapted to that dynamic of dominance, and so become troopers, cops, weapons scientists, corporate managers, bankers and mercenaries as much as those who become rapists, murderers, and abusers of all hue.

  34. Rob N. Hood November 10, 2009 at 2:23 pm #

    Very well said cornelius! I will add this, as a slightly different way of explaining the same thing:

    In early 1944 the New York Times asked Vice President Wallace to, as Wallace noted, “write a piece answering the following questions: What is a fascist? How many fascists have we? How dangerous are they?”

    Vice President Wallace’s answers to those questions were published in The New York Times on April 9, 1944, at the height of the war against the WWII Axis powers of Germany and Japan:

    “The really dangerous American fascists,” Wallace wrote, “are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those… With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.”

    “American fascism will not be really dangerous,” he added in the next paragraph, “until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information…”

    Noting that, “Fascism is a worldwide disease,” Wallace further suggested that fascism’s “greatest threat to the United States will come after the war” and will manifest “within the United States itself.”

    In his strongest indictment of the tide of fascism the Vice President of the United States saw rising in America, he added:

    “They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.”

    Finally, Wallace said, “The myth of fascist efficiency has deluded many people. … Democracy, to crush fascism internally, must…develop the ability to keep people fully employed and at the same time balance the budget. It must put human beings first and dollars second. It must appeal to reason and decency and not to violence and deceit. We must not tolerate oppressive government or industrial oligarchy in the form of monopolies and cartels.”

    As Wallace’s President, Franklin D. Roosevelt, said when he accepted his party’s renomination in 1936 in Philadelphia:
    “…Out of this modern civilization, economic royalists [have] carved new dynasties…. It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction…. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man….”

    Speaking indirectly of the fascists that Wallace would directly name almost a decade later, Roosevelt brought the issue to its core:
    “These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power.”

  35. Rob N. Hood November 10, 2009 at 3:07 pm #

    What is this about the USA NOT being a DEMOCRACY? Are you people nuts? Even Bush talked about it constantly and how other countries want what we have (democracy), and his mission from God was to get it to them, even via war (thanks again for that W) And so, WHY DO WE VOTE…??!! Because we are a “Representative Republic” ??!! I would like to hear from someone about this, and not a winger, because I basically don’t trust what they say, they are extremists and believe whatever they hear from the echo chamber. So please- some lawyer or someone very smart please educate about this- I really want to know. Thanks!

    • Dan McGrath November 10, 2009 at 3:36 pm #

      Holy crap. How old are you, where did you go to school and are you kidding?

      Democracy, is of course an often-used term of simplification to describe any society that provides the citizens the right to vote, but a true democracy would be a society wherein the people vote directly on legislation (such as ballot initiataves in California). A Republic consists of representatives of the people who may or may not be elected and who vote in a democratic fashion on legislation. Specifically, the United States was established to be a Constitutional Republic. That is, a republic where the representatives do not have unchecked power, but are limited by the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution. Our founders were brilliant in establishing our form of government as it guarantees equal protection under the law, protecting the rights and liberty of minorities from the tyranny of a majority. Pure democracy would trample the rights of minorities.

      Democracy in itself is not a virtue. Without the protections of a constitution making certain untouchable guarantees of rights, a democracy would be a horrible tyranny.


  36. corneilius November 10, 2009 at 3:31 pm #

    Voting without complete and transparent oversight of those selected is no choice at all, as it leaves room for corruption. Voting without active and ongoing participation (which is power true sharing) is also a fraud.

    For those reasons democracy, as practiced, is a fraud.

    The remedy is as follows :

    Undermine the power of parties, ban private funding of parties, ban ‘party line’/’party whip’ and make lobbying transparent, both of which are currently enforced because no-one at the grass roots level would abide by such behaviour amongst their own neighbours, and why would they chose otherwise? Institute a recall process for all positions of public office, at all levels, from grass-roots to the executive. Make it easier for independent representatives to enter. Give more decision making powers and the resources to effectively make decisions at the grass roots local level.

    In a word, give people real power and they will use it wisely. This is proven by the very fact that the system is rigged AGAINST people power.

    And for all these reasons, Democracy as practiced is a fraud.

  37. paul wenum November 10, 2009 at 11:41 pm #

    Thank You Dan! I needed that. You made my day with an excellent factual answer.

  38. jeong chun phuoc December 13, 2009 at 2:55 am #

    “COP 15 : Climate Open Pandora”

    Without a binding agreement, there is no go for COP 15.

    Without aid from developed countries, developing countries cannot be blamed for not co-operating.

    Without developed countries support, developing economies will continue to use anti-green technologies.

    There is a need for green environmental strategy. Having more COP15 is not a viable solution at all.

    Jeong Chun phuoc

  39. johnny seven January 8, 2010 at 10:47 pm #

    Look, people admit it, you have lost. Constitutional Republics last only 200 years and then must be replaced by a more social progressive evolved approach. It is not worth fretting about, there is now no way you can ever win. While you were sitting on your fat decadent asses we were out knocking on doors and convincing people we all need to vote for more socially responsible people. Face it Communism is the natural evolution of societies and can never be stopped. Delayed yes but never stopped. Even if our Congress is replaced this fall our public schools will continue to educate our youth that socialism is responsible living. Give it up. It is over.

    • Dan McGrath January 11, 2010 at 1:02 pm #

      Well it seems that you are almost right. Communism (and thus, statism) seems to be the next stop of a society in decline. I’d hardly call it evolution, though. It’s devolution and will hasten our plunge into the economic abyss. What I can’t wrap my head around is that some people actually relish the idea, look foreward to it, and try to bring it about. We’ve witnessed the horror of communism around the world, seen it’s abject failure, the misery it causes people forced to live under it. What do you think a communist society would be like? What would it mean to your life? Paint me a picture.

  40. india September 12, 2012 at 11:42 pm #

    No, we should not let this happen ,it is best to leave nature to itself we have already done enough damage.

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