Corruption of Climate Science Has Created 30 Lost Years

dunce-instructingBy Dr. Tim Ball

Traditionally, the older scientists held to the prevailing wisdom and were challenged by the new, skeptical graduates looking for wider answers. In climatology, the opposite has happened. The so-called skeptics challenging the prevailing wisdom are the professors who have researched and taught the subject for 30 years or longer. Their knowledge is much wider than that of the new young scientists because climate science has stagnated for thirty years. All the funding was directed to only one side of climate science, and that was the side promoted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and accepted as the ‘official science’ by governments.

It’s now frightening how little climate science is known by both sides of the debate on human causation of global warming. I wrote this sentence before I saw a paper from Michigan State University that found,

Most college students in the United States do not grasp the scientific basis of the carbon cycle – an essential skill in understanding the causes and consequences of climate change.

The professor says students need to know because they must deal with the buildup of CO2 causing climate change. This discloses his ignorance about the science of the carbon cycle and the role of CO2 in climate. It’s not surprising, and caused by three major factors:

  1. a function of the emotional, irrational, religious approach to environmentalism;
  2. the takeover of climate science for a political agenda; and
  3. funding directed to prove the political, rather than the scientific, agenda.

The dogmatism of politics and religion combined to suppress openness of ideas and the advance of knowledge critical to science.

Read the Rest at Dr. Ball’s “A Different Perspective.”

122 Responses to Corruption of Climate Science Has Created 30 Lost Years

  1. Rob N. Hood May 7, 2011 at 7:15 pm #

    Intreresting how the accusations in this article could really be directed at the right-wing’s response to climate change. It’s an age-old tactic, take what you are guilty of and accuse the other side of the same. Nazi’s perfected it, as did Machievelli.

  2. Rob N. Hood May 8, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    The chief executive of CBS (CBS) was paid nearly $57 million last year. The head of Occidental Petroleum (OXY) made $76 million. And the top boss at Comcast (CMCSA) took home $31 million.

    The recession has clearly faded into ancient history for executives at the largest public companies, who are getting paid more now than in 2007, The Associated Press reports. Using data from a compensation research firm, AP has gathered a list of last year’s 50 highest-paid CEOs.

    Seven chief executives took home more than $30 million, including salary, perks, bonuses, stock options and other factors. Viacom (VIA) head Philippe Dauman topped the list, with $84.5 million in compensation — a 149% gain from the year before. Viacom’s stock did well last year, rising 46% to end December at an adjusted close of $45.72. Viacom owns MTV, Nickelodeon and Paramount Pictures.

    Not every boss saw that kind of success, however. At Time Warner (TWX), chief executive Jeff Bewkes took home $26.1 million, a 35% increase, even though the stock price rose only 13% to $32.03.

    I’m sure they worked very hard and deserve those raises. (?!) What about everyone else that works hard every day (probably harder than any of these spoiled CEO’s.)??

    • Jerk A. Knot May 9, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

      Class warfare is necessary…. All you have not’s band together and strike against you oppressor…. Rise up I say rise up and throw off your shackles of slavery under the rule of the big CEO’s….. so that you may then be enslaved under the just rule of those that know better… we are ready to help you here at the DNC and make you all equally poor. We will justly distribute your wealth, healthcare, energy, work hours and ice. We will care for your every need until you need it… then we will ration it out. Unless you are a fully vested DNC member…. Paid in full that is. Of course since you have no money to pay in full goe to the back of the line and wait for your name to be called to receive the band aid for your bobo…

      • Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

        Have some more of that Kool-aid. Scratch that, you’ve had enough…

  3. Rob N. Hood May 8, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Koch Brothers are two of the wealthiest people in the country. And we are paying for it every time we pump gas. What great American’s they are!

  4. Rob N. Hood May 9, 2011 at 6:42 am #

    The cold shoulder… the silent treatment. About time. It will help me stop this addiction of wasted time and effort.

    • Jerk A. Knot May 9, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

      What else would you expect in this time of clobal cooling…. or is it warming I keep forgetting …. oh yea climate change…. I think….

  5. Rob N. Hood May 9, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    Right- ignore real science and latch onto what you want to believe out of convenience and guilt-free living. It’s the right-wing way.

  6. paul wenum May 9, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    You are correct. “Right – Ignore real science,” your own words. How ironic.

  7. Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 6:55 am #

    Ha Ha. Good one… not. Selective reality perception. Fatalistic right-wing death wish and masochism. Don’t drag the sane down with you all. I know, you will anyway… try at least.

    • Jerk A. Knot May 10, 2011 at 9:53 am #

      What we find as ironic is that the science of AWG, CO2 emissions, ect…… that the left latches on for political purposes has all be debunked. Most of the thousands of scientists that signed on in the hay day of AL Gore. have turned away from it deciding to go with the reality that drastic Global climate change is not an anomaly but a natural occurrence. We on the right are not opposed to conservation by any means. There just needs to be a reasoned approach to it. After all man is a natural occurrence and we to have our place and the fact that we can reason at a higher level means that we share some responsibility. Also, if you believe as I do, we are appointed by God to be the stewards of the world. I want to take care of what God has entrusted to me. He also wants us to use its recourses. We were not created to sit back and let it go. We were give “dominion” of it. Not to abuse it by any means but to multiply in it, grow it and use it. Oh we have cause some damage to it for sure. But all in all we haven’t done too bad. Don’t forget… There are plenty of species that have gone extinct w/o mans influence than have been cause by mans influence. What the left has a problem with is that when some one else knows better than them and can prove it with facts and validated studies they dismiss them as uncaring, stupid masochistic, sadistic, ignorant, haters. Who live life only for themselves. It is always done in an attempt to minimize what the facts are and incite dislike of the individual asserting the fact. Just as an octopus will discharge ink to get away from a predator. It clouds clear vision of the facts….
      Robbie boy, that is your M.O. You discharge ink to hide the facts. IE your last group of posts. Nothing about the facts just about how “evil” us right wing conservatives are. All we want to do is drag everyone else down with our “death wish” agenda. That is a little paranoid don’t you think. I think you might want to stop self medicating my friend it is not mixing well with your prescriptions….

  8. Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Jerk boy, the Right doesn’t use any of this for political purposes? You believe that? My theory about this site’s subject is thus: People like yourselves, in my opinion, are wrong about 99% of everything else, so how can I logically share your opinion on global warming? It would be illogical of me to do that, and anti-intellectual as well. You see my conundrum? None of your “reasoning” is any better or different than your reasoning about many other issues. Your ability to reason logically is impaired… sorry but that is not just my opinion. Wrap your imagination around this idea: both of us cannot be right about all these different issues. One of us has to be wrong… agreed? So, we each have, at least, a 50 % chance of being wrong. I admit that, and proceed with most of my beliefs based on that simple but honest truth. The Right doesn’t seem to share that humble belief. You are right no matter what, or so it seems. No amount of “fact” can change that. That is why I question even your opinions re: global warming, a very complicated and inexact concept. Also, I don’t think I called you evil. You may be prone to bias and brainwashing from the true evil and elite… your crime is as stated above. You talk about responsibility above, the Right often does. But real opportunties for responsibility on the Right is very often dodged or passed along to someone else… blame the real victim etc. That’s what the Right is good at.

  9. Jerk A. Knot May 10, 2011 at 2:38 pm #

    Robbie Boy,
    Let me start off with an easy one. You have called the right wing evil many times in the past. And even in this last post you said we are prone to be brainwashed by the true evil eliete. Well using logic. If I am thinking evil things, believe evil things and do the evil bidding of my “masters” then I am evil. So therefore you can not believe anything I say because I am evil.

    Second I have never ever seen you back up an argument with a fact. Not one. I have seen you cut excerpts from an opinion pice and paist them in but I have never ever seen you back thoes opinion up with any hard facts from any kind of research. I have also seen you paist in totally off the wall crap that has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. What locical purpose does that sreve. NONE! In fact that is anti-logical. I have posted tones of facts and have been attacked by you as being wrong yet you do not deliver any data or fact to back your your claim….

  10. Rob N. Hood May 10, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    Putting words in my “mouth” to strengthen your irrational argument doesn’t make any more logical or correct. Sorry. You don’t see or read facts because you choose not to. I used to try to post more of those kinds of things… to no avail here. It didn’t matter to you folks… it was all trashed and disbeleived anyway, without any meaningful or thoughtful discourse.

  11. paul wenum May 10, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    Truth hurts doesn’t it Robbie Boy. Nice post Sir Knot. To this day have yet to read a rational post from RB.

  12. Rob N. Hood May 11, 2011 at 8:56 am #

    Really Paul? You guys seem to agree on things mainly when they are illogical and irrational. Doesn’t that tell you something? Want some actual truth Paul? Here it is: Read it and weep/deny/delude/bury/ignore…:

    Squeezing, gouging, soaking, it’s all the same, and it’s all wrong. The richest Americans, we hear it said, pay most of the federal income taxes. That’s true. But since 1980 their AFTER-TAX SHARE of America’s income has TRIPLED. That’s a trillion dollars a year in extra income for the wealthiest 1%. A trillion dollars is seven times more than the budget deficits of all 50 states combined. A trillion dollars, if it hadn’t been redistributed to the rich, would provide an extra $10,000 a year for every family that has contributed to American productivity since 1980. And many of the largest American corporations, regardless of record profits in the past few years, not only often pay nothing, they receive refunds! Awake gullible rubes, awake.

    I know- it’s all hogwash to you Rightys. Facts that displease you have no place in your “realities”. Pity that. God gave you a large brain for a reason… did s/he not?

  13. Rob N. Hood May 11, 2011 at 8:58 am #

    BTW your “truths” have yet to hurt, me. They only make be sad. For this country. And for the hard-working everyman/woman who is getting increasingly screwed by the wealthy elite thanks to [DELETE]

  14. Jerk A. Knot May 11, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    You see it all has to do wit perception here. Your perception is that when Rich people make money they put it in a big Vault and sit on it. That is further from the truth. Anyone who wants to be rich or is rich puts there money out there to make more money. Solid buisness and rich people keep a few months of liquid assets on hand incase of bad times. Other than that they pore there wealth into ventures that allow it to grow. Donnald Trump spends money to make money. I don’t care if you like it or not. The reality is my company is a $50 million a year CO. We have 112 employees that we pay well and we sub contract work out to some smaller COs that onle make a few 100K. We live of of doing things for CO’s that make hundreds of millions of $$ and they live off of CO’ that make Billions of $$$. We also have a few products that we sell direct to our customers. BTW my partner and I started out with only a few thousand 5 years ago trying to sell 5 variations of one product. I am not a millionare but I will be one in a few years. I will deserve it. I ammore than happy anyoen who needs it. Myhelp will not be in the form of a hand out. But in the form of training for people to get off of the wellfair the govt traps them into. I have people who come in on a daily basis that want us to sign there GOVT form saying that they came in looking for work so that they can continue to stay on the GOVT milk waggon. You seem to think that it is the wealthy eliete that screws over everyone.. ha they feed everyone. oh I know there are some bad apples in the wealthy class as there are in the poor class also. That has always been the truth and it always will be. the fact is that if you eliminate the Corprate Welth then you will just have politicalclass that will replace it and they will be the wealthy. Look at the shining example of our current President. He campained on controlling spending and has spent more than all the formor presidents put together in just 2 years. If we destroy the economy then you will have your way and the onlywealthy people in the US will be the political ruling class and you Robbie boy will have less than you do now.

  15. Rob N. Hood May 11, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Your first few sentences highlights your ignorance of reality and bias. It is a known fact that regardless of the “deal” that big business use tax cuts and loopholes for hiring, they do not, have not, thus part if not all of their record profits that in turn goes mainly into the CEO’s pocket. The rest of your post is self-congratulatory and anecdotal. If true, you are one of the lucky ones. Yes, I know, you work hard etc. and you feel luck has nothing to do with it but of course it does. Not everyone, in fact, by design, not everyone can hope for such luck and opportunity. You won’t understand that, or act like you don’t. I’m not taking away from your accomplishments, I’m just inserting reality. You continue on in the Right-wing typical manner of blaming everyone who isn’t like you for being less deserving or worthy of some small slice of your American dream. Except that you say you pay your employees well, etc. If true, that is great and if only all employers were like you. Sadly they are not, and that is only part of the bigger problem. Your inability to see the big picture is not uncommon, if only it were. But congratulations and I wish you continued success. Your last sentence is also way off the mark. It isn’t Liberals who are busy destroying the economy. That belief is a falsehood that has been fed to the American public via mainstream media for decades. As for Obama and “his” spending… well, all I can say is you are VERY biased and narrow-minded if you believe that, especially since what he has done has really only been an extension of the Bush economic policies, and basically necessary due to Bush’s incompetence and Bush’s own HUGE spending. Bush inherited a rather large surplus that he not only squandered but added negatively significantly for Obama to have to take care of. Those are facts. I’m sorry you can’t deal with them.

    • Jerk A. Knot May 11, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

      You idiot,

      Everyone is capable to achieve and accomplish what i have. If they work for it they deserve it…. You just want it handed to you. The pilgrams came here and tried to set up a comunal way of life after several years of starving they did away with it and the rest is history. Everyone has a chance to be as great and rich as thy want to be but by killing CO’s and thoes that employ isnot the way to do it. But you don’t and never will understand that because you are to busy crying about what you don’t have and screaming IT IS NOT FAIR. You are the selfserving person here. Your intrests are to get something for nothing To recieve handouts….. Yes Bush spent a ton but to say he inherited a surplus is a lie. Read it a weep. it was a projectd surplus if spending levels stayed the same. Unfortunatly the Congress put budgets out that did not sustain that…. Here is a government 101 lesson the Congress has the power of the purse. OBTW Pelosi, Reid and OBAMA have far out spent Bush…. so get off it. Also a little thing called 9/11 took place and the DEMS held the war hostage to spend what they wanted and the REPUBS went along with it to get the needed war spending…. Your inability to connect simple events and fact becomes mor and more astounding…. However thank you for giving me an outlet. These light intelectual arguments are great entertainment value for me.

  16. Rob N. Hood May 11, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    Oh, and shame on those people who show up for possible employment and the signing of the required documentation!! The nerve!! Unless you hire ever one of them, I don’t think you should act so high and mighty about that. Another blaming the weaker, other, right-wing habit.

  17. Jerk A. Knot May 11, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    WOW you really don’t get it do you. In your mind I should hire them all. Even when I don’t have any work for them. No I refuse to pay someone to sit and do nothing then have to pay a hard worker less…. that would be a Union shop. Yes Shame on them for coming in just to get a signature so that they can stay on the welfare rolls…. from time to time I offer jobs to some of them and they scoff at the offer and often leave angry. I can tell as soon as I see them because thy don’t have a resume or even ask for an application they just have the “FORM” in their hand and a S—eating GRIN on their face. Yes, shame on them. And shame on you for enslaving them. You are the oppressor that has killed their dream. You have sold them a bill of goods that keeps them entrapped in a never ending circle of dependence on big brother to feed, house and entertain them…. then when disaster strikes they sit still in one place waiting for your bureaucracy to come and save them. And they dye by the hundreds in a superdome. You are a hypocrite and a deceiver. The blood of hundreds of ONLA citizens is on your hands for making them incapable of fleeing certain danger. Yes I am blaming you. You and everyone that thinks like you.

  18. paul wenum May 11, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Amen, Sir Knot! Over the last few years have had numerous people come to my business and apply as well. Instead of what they are you bringing to the table to help the company grow/succeed it is “What is in it for me?” never even asking what we did. Never forgot a few that applied and instead of stating what they could bring to the table to help us expand simply stated that they demanded a certain fixed salary over what was posted to pay their bills, full benefits, healthcare, personal days off (PTO), three weeks vacation, day care paid for et al. They brought nothing to the table as to how they wished to work to make the company excel. Had numerous leave before I even stated what the job entailed. You are correct. Simply getting their quota of job interviews to keep that “Ole check” coming in monthly. Robbie Boy has never run a business nor understands the real world and I have been doing this for over 40 plus years. Seems that Robbie should entertain starting his own business like you and I to see reality as it exists. This person, if he is, will never change. Soros’ must pay him well I assume?

  19. Rob N. Hood May 12, 2011 at 8:32 am #

    Once again you (wow) missed my point completely, or you pretend to. It’s hard for me to believe you are that dense, because you are on your way to making a million bucks. Which is it? And shame on those people for indicating plain and simple what they want and/or need. I’m sure you NEVER do that, or would even think about such a thing! (Hypocrisy alert!) I guess you’d prefer they sit at home and “collect their checks.” ??? You’s approve of that would you? No… hardly. You Rightys go on and on without any serious thought about making your opinions or comments logical and/or rational. And you expect everyone else to respect you? To really want to hear what you have to say about anything? Nope, sorry. Certain minimal qualifications for that level of commitment… which you all consistently fail. You apparetnly seriously think someone like me is not logical or rational. That makes sense actually… since you don’t demonstrate either capability on a regular basis, how would you recognise such in others? You would/do not. And of course you apparently did not consider anything I posted with any level of actual thoughtfulness. It’s just knee-jerk responses from you guys no matter what. Remember that big brain God gave you? Not using it fully? Why is that? That is my main question, the question I’ve been trying to figure out all this while. It must be a brain thing… how it’s wired. People tend to demonstrate such deficits the world over, no matter the race, religion, etc. Is it evolution, and we have a ways to go yet? That’d make sense, to me at least…

  20. Jerk A. Knot May 12, 2011 at 9:00 am #

    Here is the deal Robbie boy. You have no perception of reaity. If your six year old son wanted to touch a hot burning eye on a stove you would stop him. If he then said I need to touch it. You still would not let him do so. Why because you know better. Robbie I came from nothing. I wanted and needed alot. I was given thing numerous times that I thought I did not need nor want but someone knew better. I am not superman nor am I better thanany one else. Am I arrogant because I know better? I think not. You will probably say I am. One thing I do know. A man can never ammout to much by sitting onhis rear end and not helping himself. I have see many a drunkard defete alcoholisum. Not because they were forced to but because they decided to. The same principal applies to the world. If you want to better your self you need to take action yourself and not wait on the mail man to bring you a check. No one willtake care of you better than you will. and if they can than that says something about what knid of person you are. With that being said. there are some people that really need help. But it is not 45% of the population. And you Left wing decievers would have us believe it is more like 70%….. When you emplore me to use my brain I laugh. when you question my logic that laughter grows into a roar. If you need a Job come move down here to AL. I will hire you into the front office just for the comic relief…. Your posts are like listening to the court jester give the king advice.

  21. V May 12, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    Your reality is outdated Knot. You’re impeding progress. We are all talking about reality here and unlike you we see the faults in reality today. It is you who has no vision. You’re making due with what is. That’s anti-progressive. We are trying to implement new programs to change reality for the better. Your resistance is just hurting everyone involved so why don’t you do everyone a favor and take your dinosaur ideas and step aside. Let those with vision take the drivers seat. Not that there’s no use for you. With your knowledge of history you’ll make a great advisor. Leadership is meant for those that see into the future. You’re not useless you just have a different use. Making decisions for the future is not one of them. Maybe one of your loyal employees sitting in the front office can do that for you. Take care of yourself king Knot.

  22. Jerk A. Knot May 12, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    V, I doubt that you know a thing about leadership. I am sure that if you were put in the path of an oncoming train with 10 welfare recipients to “lead ” you would tell them all to sit on the rails and wait for the Government to rescue them…. You tell me to stop resisting. I am sure you would have had the same advise for the Jews in the Holocaust. You are right about one thing. leaders must be able to see into the future. What you don’t realize is that they must be able to envision many futures. the future is influenced by action and inaction. Of course your reality does not match mine. I gained my sense of reality from the streets (experience) and from books (education). As I told R&H I have been all around the world. In fact the only continent I have not been on is the Antarctic. I can see that you hold to the tactic of attacking me than addressing the ideas I have asserted. If that is your idea of progressive you can keep it….. We all know here that Progressive, Socialist, leftist, Communist, ect ect…. are all synonymous. History repeats it’s self. That is a timeless fact. I really count you as a threat to the good order of this Republic. I would not doubt that you think that Capitalism is biased on greed and that Public education is a tool for controlling the masses.

    • V May 12, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

      “leaders must be able to see into the future. What you don’t realize is that they must be able to envision many futures. the future is influenced by action and inaction.”

      I wasn’t talking about being a psychic. Being able to see outcomes is exactly what I was implying.

      Here is one such outcome:

      Welfare (social assistance or whatever you choose to call it) gets cut from government spending. Crime rises as the unemployed compensate for the missing government checks. You awake in the morning, notice your tv, computer, car etc. missing. You call the police who find your property and the property of 1 million other employed citizens just like you. You find satisfaction in the fact that your belongings have been returned and your pocket is fatter now that you’re not paying for others to sit at home and wait for their checks to arrive in the mail. But wait, your taxes instead of being lower are being raised. Seems like instead of sitting at home the unemployed are now sitting in jail. You are now being taxed to keep a roof over the unemployed’ heads, feed them, entertain them, and so on, except now it’s in a new setting. Jail. Added police is required to deal with this welfare-less society. New infrastructure to house offenders. New infrastructure to house their families. More judges, lawyers, clerks, and so on. Government spending would end up going through the roof. Cut welfare? Do you see the multiple recourses to what you propose.

      But wait, you’re one of the lucky who’s belongings have been found. There are another million robberies where the robbers havent been found. Not to worry, the victims were insured. They made their claim and received the capital to replace their belongings. All was fine and dandy again. Until their check came in their mail. A rise in premiums? But why would that be?

      I’m sorry jerk. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. You live in la-la land. I understand what welfare does for those on it, and, the security it affords me. Hopefully after reading this you will too.

      Your plan to get rid of welfare is short-sighted. Precisely as I’ve been saying. Please refrain from stupid statements such as the one I’ve quoted at the top of this post.

      • Jerk A. Knot May 18, 2011 at 10:00 am #

        Wow I missed this post last week. What the heck are you talking about. You Stereotyped everyone on welfare as criminals. You assert that the only thing holding them back from stealing breaking into everyone’s property is that they are sitting at home getting a check. Well aren’t you prejudging them? My view is quite different than you would lead others to believe. I don’t want to cut welfare totally from the books. Never have and you have never heard me say so. I do want it drastically changed. I want it to help people get back on there feet. I know many people that are trapped in a system of support that limits work. In fact here is an example. A Girl that I grew up with hit some realy hard times. She got on welfare and had 2 kids w/o a father. She ad a few more (5 total) to keep her $$$ coming in. Our Church helped her get off of Drugs and trained her for a job. But as soon as she got a job the system started to cut her off drastically. The same system that did not offer her any help at all (as in job training). It just paid her to pump out kids. SO there she is making less than the Govt was giving her and it was sucking her right back into it. One of our Deacons stepped in and we pulled her out by supporting her until she was able to make enough to support herself. Now I know you are going to blame the greed of the company for not paying her enough. That is what you lefties always do. I blame your system that showed he it was better to have 5 kids and live of the Govt than to go to work before she pumped out the kids.
        The other miss calculation you make is that I don’t have any experience living poor. I grew up that way. Also Welfare does not give you any security. It is a trap. Once you are in it there is no incentive to get out. I have seen it and lived it. Jesus said if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day. If you teach him how to fish you will feed him for his life. Me and My ilk would rather give people their dignity and respect back and teach them a skill to market and feed their family. I appreciate you trying to educate me V. You really need to stop getting your talking points from The Peoples Party. Try Jesus. His message is less caustic.

    • V May 12, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

      Capitalism is based on purchases of products and services. The monetary system is a value holder for trade. I believe in trading. I traded toys and food from childhood, not much has changed, my toys have gotten bigger that’s about it. I have no problem with capitalism. I enjoy commodities and when my need and want disappears I trade them. So you’re wrong there.

      Education is something we need to invest more in, it is our greatest evolutionary tool. So you’re wrong there too.

      Now this is something I don’t believe “We all know here that Progressive, Socialist, leftist, Communist, ect ect…. are all synonymous”. You’re wrong here too. But if you want to go there we could say that all of you on the right are Fascists. What was that you said about the holocaust? Come to think of it your plan for ridding the unemployed sounds much like the Germans plan of ridding Jews.

      Do you like that solution King Knot? Rounding up all those freeloaders and shipping them off to overcongested jails? What will you do after the cells overfill? Create camps to house them? But what will you do when you can’t keep them all (like running out of guards, space, food etc.) jailed up, dig a deep hole maybe?

      • Jerk A. Knot May 18, 2011 at 10:14 am #

        Look V, In the US the right wing movement wants the Govt to be smaller not bigger. In fact the left has modeled itself into a Fascist form than the right. Government Controll of private industry is the key to fascist movements. GM ring any bells…. if not Fannie May…. ect ect…. Round them UP???? Jail them???? you are way off base here in these statements. Our welfair systems already hurds the poor into large housing projects. It was just a few years ago that Bush got a law signed into effect requiring HUD to dispurse federal ousing rather than consolidate it. Thoes housing projects even had specialy funded police to patrol them… You had to keepthem in line you know. WOW I really can not believe that you think we want to cadge them up when the Left has been doing it for years. People in poverty and need add to your power base. They are nothing more than votes to you. Remember I started out poor and I know first hand how two faced democratic Politicians are. And you spew all of there old hate speach.

        It is funny how you attack me personally and tell me how hatefull and wrong I am. Look in the mirror V…. what do you see? You sound bitter to me.

  23. Jerk A. Knot May 12, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    Here is a story from a blog site that meets the scientiffic standard that V and R&H demand.

    Read it and weap NASA has proven AWG is for real!!!! PAUL and Neil we were so wrong…. I hope God forgives us for what we have done.

    • V May 12, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

      This ties in with evapotranspiration (drying of the ground) and loss of nutrients from the soil (removal of oil) not Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) if it weren’t a seasonal joke (satirical poke at real science).

      Joking aside, pumping oil will leave infertile grounds. The reservoirs that are left empty or half empty or whatever the current standard practice is will begin to refill and thanks to gravity (which is something that some republicans don’t understand) this means that organic materials (or oils, dead organism waste, crude) will seep from top soil (where they’re required for vegetation to grow) into the reservoirs we pumped from. The holes we emptied will refill from saturated top soil leaving the topsoil infertile. Seepage is a slow process but there already is evidence of this happening. This is why the practice of refilling holes with sand and such was begun. I don’t know if you know what terraformation is but it is an anthropogenic practice in effect. We are changing this planet.

      You can enjoy this satirical read if you like but you’d have to be quite a sadist the year that spring summer then fall roll around (you know watching vegetation die) winter passes and the spring that comes springs nothing. Hilarious. No more vegetation. No more food chain. No more humans. Your joke may turn around and laugh at you next.

      • Jerk A. Knot May 12, 2011 at 1:42 pm #


        Befor you were born and after you die the seasons will continue. BTW when the Foliage falls the tree is not dieing it is going dorment as a nateral means of surviving. I like the way you twist simple science to paint me as a sadist. The humor in it points out what a loser you are. Let me see where is this evidance of “seepage” you claim. Here is what really happens. Because unlike the drones you recruit We (Republicans) can read for ourselves. We chalange everything and rely on truth and fact not deception and twists to bais our opinion on.

        A little science class for you.

        The crude oil (and natural gas) we drill for the world over is, for the most part, stored in tiny pores within rock up to only about three miles deep in the Earth’s hugely dense crust. At such depths, the oil there is under fairly high pressure. When it is removed, other liquids—usually water—move in to take its place, equalizing the pressure in the process. Sometimes oil extractors pump water into one side of an oil field to push oil toward wells on the other side, and the water replaces the oil accordingly. In cases where other liquids don’t move in, such as in the North Sea off The Netherlands, the porous rock layer that harbored the oil originally can collapse after extraction, causing slight amounts of land settling (known as “land subsidence”) in the rock layer surfaces above, but typically no more than a few tenths of an inch per year. Here in the U.S., land subsidence induced by the large volume extraction of underground resources including oil and gas “is more common than most people realize,” according to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), a government agency which collects, monitors, analyzes and provides scientific understanding about natural resource conditions, issues and problems. Flat coastal plains and wetlands near sea level are most at risk from this potential side effect. Excessive ground water pumping, not oil or gas extraction, is the single largest source of land subsidence, says the USGS, but the agency cites several cases throughout the 20th century which they say demonstrate how “accelerated withdrawal of oil, gas and associated water from shallow unconsolidated reservoirs could lower the land elevation, cause minor earthquakes, and activate faults [around oil fields].” Subsidence around large, mature oil and gas fields that coincide with faults could add enough stress to trigger small, locally based earthquakes as far as two kilometers away from the offending wells. Most geologists agree, though, that it is unlikely that oil and gas extraction could contribute to or cause major earthquakes, which are generated at depths far deeper than would be practical to drill for oil or gas. The USGS does suggest, however, that the continued withdrawal of oil and gas and the associated decline in underground fluid pressure could even contribute to coastal sea level rises by lowering coastal land elevations. As for sinkholes, modern oil wells tend to be much deeper than the depth where sinkholes typically can affect people. Nonetheless, in 1980 residents of the West Texas town of Wink awoke one morning to find a 370-foot wide, 110-foot deep sinkhole a couple of miles north of downtown. Geologists suspect the sinkhole formed as a result of historic (and by today’s standards outdated) oil production practices in the area whereby extractors pumped saltwater out from underneath the surface and left a void that the above layer of earth eventually collapsed into. A second, even bigger sinkhole opened up nearby in 2002. CONTACT: U.S. Geological Survey,

        • V May 12, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

          When an organism dies and decomposes where do the organic compounds that once constituted the organism end up? In the ground Jerk, the compost seeps into the ground. You’re [not allowed to call names] and there’s nothing funny about that.

          [edited by all wise and powerful moderator. Play nice, or you’re toast here.]

          • Jerk A. Knot May 16, 2011 at 8:56 am #

            Again Leaves falling of of trees is not death. The tree does not die. It goes dormant and drops it leaves. In the spring it has new growth. We shed skin all the time. We don’t die. How about refuting the sicence in what I posted. I really dont think you can because there is nothing to refute it with. Have a good day V. It has been fun sparing with you. A very light workout it was.

        • V May 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

          Humanity is the common tree, you are an apple, the apple dies but the tree keeps going if the seeds are spread. Vegetation dies and if we keep stealing nutrients from the ground (bio-sludge) the tree will die too. No more apples Adam.

          • Jerk A. Knot May 17, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

            You still have not shown any evidance of “bio sludge” being caused by “empty spaces” under the ground caused by oil drilling. I (Adam) am not eating your (Eve) apple today.

  24. paul wenum May 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    Nice discourse. Never been on welfare V. Was starving attempting to make a living, never stole, burglarized et al. I worked hard at minimum wage jobs and kept working for whatever came before me to cover my minimum expenses. Is that a problem??? It is today. By the way, I note you have a computer to post, email, and assume a cell phone as well? Who pays for it? You?, or Sir Knot, I, as well as others? Let me know I’m curious.

    • Dan McGrath May 12, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

      You are making it personal – that’s a mistake. You are playing on HIS terms. Stick to issues, science and logic and you will win every time. Personal attacks WILL be deleted. No more comments on speculative personalities. Nobody KNOWS the motives of other commentators. Stick to KNOWN elements – facts, PLEASE.

    • Rob N. Hood May 13, 2011 at 9:16 am #

      More self-righousness from Jerk and Paul. Neil would make the trifecta… knee-jerk responses. Nothing new or interesting.

  25. Dan McGrath May 12, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    I’m a little less busy and I’m paying more attention to the conversation at GCS – I am not pleased with the level of discourse. Won’t name names – all guilty of ad homonym replies. We should be better than that. No asumptions about motives. No assumptions about lifestyles or personalities. NO PERSONAL INSULTS directed at other commentators.

    If you can’t be civil, I will delete entire comment threads that go rouge, wholesale.

    I don’t want to, because I love free speech and open debate, but this site has rules, as any good debate does. Follow them. If you need to express yourself in ways not allowed here, you have that right – elsewhere. This is a private blog. ISSUES. FACTS. They always prevail. Let’s get to the bottom of AGW with facts and logic and keep pur passions in check. OK?

  26. Rob N. Hood May 13, 2011 at 9:19 am #

    Just the “facts”?! That will never happen… “facts” are twisted, made up, etc. Self-rightous opinions from the Right will not stop. Ever. We can try though.

  27. paul wenum May 14, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    Read today Obama is opening the oil rights to finally drill on our turf. Now that is the best news I have read in quite awhile. Is he possibly getting it? Now, he should look at clean coal as well.

  28. paul wenum May 15, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    Dan, If I’m a problem please let me know. By the way, congrats on Voter ID!

  29. Rob N. Hood May 15, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    As far as I know Obama likes “clean coal” and even campaigned on it. Of course, no such thing really exists, unless environmental/pollution controls and enforcement are strengthened, and of course that won’t happen any time soon… Obama is more or less pro-big oil as anyone else, you have to be to be elected nowadays. But I know you can’t believe that. Your sources of info tell you otherwise, so… Did voter ID pass, or something? Congrats Rightys! Another vicotry against populism, democracy, and basic freedom! I thought you guys were FOR all these things… is that just a rumor? Ok.

    • Rob N. Hood May 17, 2011 at 7:06 am #

      I forgot- you guys don’t like democracy. I keep forgetting that. My bad.

  30. paul wenum May 15, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    Nothing is or ever will be 100% pure. You have a better alternative? Where do you think electricity comes from to fuel a Volt?

  31. Rob N. Hood May 16, 2011 at 7:13 am #

    I know where that electricity comes from… another inanity from Paul. Try again. What does your statement have to do with my post? Nothing.

    David and Charles Koch represent the worst of the corrosive elements that have turned our democracy into a pay-to-play system of government; a system where the corporate elite are able to continuously extend their power, wealth and influence while the majority of citizens are relegated further and further to the margins. Their cynical funding of the Tea Party, which has become the tip of a right wing spear that will never stop seeking tax cuts for the rich and won’t sleep until what remains of a social safety net is completely shredded, is but their latest venture in a long, long campaign to subvert democracy in order to improve their bottom line. These are the kind of guys that fund climate change “skeptics” (read: they purchase bunk science) in order to protect their investments in the fossil fuel industry. The kind of guys that try to derail health care reform because they’ve concluded that it will cut into their profit margins.

    • Nora Penn Effrin May 16, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

      I’m sorry. Do you have some evidence of this? Or are you just a Left Wing Propagandist?

      • Jerk A. Knot May 18, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

        Don’t ask him for proof you are just waisting your time…. He just cut and paited this out of an opinion pice in the Huffington Post. Robbie Boy will not debate facts with you. In act if he replies he will say to you that your illlogical and drinking the right wing kool aid. You will find out that his idea of the American way of life is to take the power away form the corprate eliete (as long as it is not Soros) and create a middle class political heirarchy to rule the USA. Of course he will deny it for the most part but because he slipps up every now and then and admits his ties to the Socialist Party of America.

        • Jerk A. Knot May 18, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

          Dern, I really spelled a bunch of stuff all wrong on that one…

        • Nora Penn Effrin May 18, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

          So he is just a Left Wing Propagandist. Iv’e noticed that he posts a lot about his political views, and does not engage in conversation about the climate. That seems rather out of place for the purpose of this blog. I find it rather strange.

          • Jerk A. Knot May 19, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

            you got it, he is here to divert the conversation…..

  32. paul wenum May 17, 2011 at 5:53 pm #

    Please explain Soro’s detailed involvement now that you bring up Koch. Waiting.

  33. Rob N. Hood May 18, 2011 at 8:53 am #

    It is you who bring up Soros, so don’t ask me. You need to explain it. I’ve explained part of the Koch Brothers greediness and unAmerican monopoly games above. What I have against people like them is they use their money and power to acquire more, for no other reason really than pure greediness, and subvert democracy and American ideals in the process. To me that is evil. Plain and simple. No brainer.

  34. paul wenum May 18, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    Soros involvement in the media national and international is ok I guess? You continually duck any question about Soros. Let us know why. We are impatiently waiting all knowing one.

  35. Rob N. Hood May 19, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    I don’t duck anything. I know little about Soros and don’t much care, other than he is just another flawed rich elite. He may come down on the Liberal side more often than most, but he’s still part of the greedy money making game, winner takes all, that has become our once great America. Paul, you are the one obsessed with Soros and obviously know much more about him than I do. Sorry to disappoint you, but that’s the truth, if you can handle it. I don’t need the rich and powerful to wash my brain and tell me what to believe and what to feel strongly about. That’s what my conscience is for, and my brain.

    • Jerk A. Knot May 19, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

      He is the one pulling your strings Robbie Pupit boy…. Half the stuff you post comes of of web sites he funds. He wants you in this class war to divide the people. You have bought into the whole rich vs poor or as it was laid out in Karl Marxx Manefesto the Haves vs the Have nots.

      I have to take up for Ole Robbie Boy here. He is not ducking you questions… they are so over his head that he does not have to duck.

  36. Rob N. Hood May 19, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    Ahhh…. more paranoia from the Right. How refreshing… And self-rightousness too! Wow! Guess who helps fund sites like these and all other right-wing propaganda- (I know Dan will deny it, as if he really knows either way). In this case it’s the Koch Bros. I have tried (you have not) to seek any kind of middle ground here more than anyone else has, except for maybe V. That is the truth whether you will admit it or not. (Don’t bother, I know your answer…).

  37. paul wenum May 19, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Seems interesting that he knows detail on Koch but has not researched Soros? Isn’t that a contradiction of his “logic and reason?” Seems to be to me. He’s always avoided direct questions when it comes to Soros.

  38. Rob N. Hood May 20, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    Still beating that dead horse Paul? Really? You used to accuse me of being the Saul Alinsky expert when you really were, and now Soros. Are you a closet Liberal Paul? C’mon, we’re all friends here, you can tell us… And BTW, my honesty regarding ignorance about anything or anyone (Soros) has nothing to do with an inability or ability to use logic and reason. It’s an example of yours, however, to keep bringing it up for no apparently good reason….

    And haven’t I already admitted that my opinion of another rich elite like Soros is only slightly higher than that of most other power-brokers? Try posting something with some thought, logic and reason. That’d be refreshing.

  39. paul wenum May 22, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    Answer the question. I hate dancing.

  40. Rob N. Hood May 23, 2011 at 7:08 am #

    I did. Sorry you can’t accept that. Not my problem. And you praise Neil for not engaging in pissing matches… wow… talk about disconnect.

  41. paul wenum May 23, 2011 at 7:20 pm #

    A “Progressive” ie, Liberal is brain dead if they do not know the background and thoughts of Soros. You seem to blast every Moderate/Centrist/ Right leaning and have full knowledge, or so you say of their alleged foibles but have no real knowledge of Soros and what he wants the progressives to do going forward? Soros loves carbon credit exchanges, liberal media agenda’s, et al and we know you are aware correct? Give us all a break and answer the question. I assume you can research and cut and paste? You seem to be very astute at research I assume based upon your posts. Therefore no diss, simply answer the question. As stated I hate dancing around a subject. Awaiting.

  42. Rob N. Hood May 24, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    Wow… single minded, narrow-mindedness egocentricity. You can bully some of the people some of the time but… And now for some “good” news for the working class schmucks (that’s most of us btw): we are well on our way to being re-adjusted to post-modern capitalism. Capitalism destroying itself from the inside out… Who’d think?!

    Slumming in America is fast becoming a business model for some of Europe’s leading companies, and they often do things here they would never think of doing at home. These companies – not banks, primarily, but such gold-plated European manufacturers as BMW, Daimler, Volkswagen and Siemens, and retailers such as IKEA – increasingly come to America (the South particularly) because labor is cheap and workers have no rights. In their eyes, we’re becoming the new China. Our labor costs may be a little higher, but we offer stronger intellectual property protections and far fewer strikes than our unruly Chinese comrades.

    Don’t take my word for it. Check out the study released this month by the Boston Consulting Group, which concludes that when you compare China’s soaring wages and still-low levels of productivity with our stagnating wages and rising levels of productivity, the price advantage of manufacturing in China instead of the U.S. will shrink to insignificance by 2015. Investment in the U.S., says the group, “will accelerate as it becomes one of the cheapest locations for manufacturing in the developed world.”

    • Jerk A. Knot May 25, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

      Ok Smarty pants… Why do they “slum in America” ?? What would the cost be in Germany to build the M300??? Why are they biulding it in Alabama and not China? Your post hits on some of the reasons. What are the rest of them. I live in AL and I will tell you We are prospering down here becaus you stupid Yankees have made it impossiable for industry to thrive. Just look a Detroit. Corrupt with graft and over regulated. So thank you to my Northeren brothers for pushing industry away. We are now making your cars and shirts. And you call us dumb hicks…. we are laughing all the way to the bank.

      • Rob N. Hood May 26, 2011 at 6:52 am #

        Detroit? Really? And Chrylser didn’t just pay off their loan? And GM on it’t way to doing so as well? As I’ve said before you could do us all a big favor and secede. The South especially Red States) is a much bigger recipient of Federal monies than the north and Blue States. That’s just a pesky fact. Sorry, I know you don’t like real facts. Go back to watching Fox and ignore people like me who bring up uncomfortable tidbits of reality. Neil has learned that lesson. He’s back to insulating himself effectively from unAmerican flag-burning commies like me.

  43. paul wenum May 24, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    Still no answer. Always change the subject when pressed. Never changes.

  44. Rob N. Hood May 25, 2011 at 7:34 am #

    Beat that dead horse Paul! Way to go…

  45. paul wenum May 25, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Will until you finally answer.

  46. Rob N. Hood May 26, 2011 at 6:46 am #

    Of course you will. You cannot accept any answer that you don’t generate. I knew that a long time ago…. yawn…

  47. paul wenum May 26, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    The devil is in the details and you will not admit. This is getting better than watch in horror MSNBC!

  48. Rob N. Hood May 27, 2011 at 7:30 am #

    Just watch Fox, it will make you feel better. No, you’re wrong, I agree the devil is in the details… So, now what? Just because you don’t like my response doesn’t make it less valid, honest, or real. But I know, you can’t accept any reality other than your own or that generated by Faux news.

  49. paul wenum May 27, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    You have still not addressed a direct question regarding Soros. I sense a feeling of frailty?

  50. Rob N. Hood May 28, 2011 at 6:42 am #

    Yes, Paul… I admit I am frail, and stupid, and everything you’d like to believe me to be. You ok now? Do you feel superior enough again? Good, I’m so glad you are feeling better. We don’t want you feeling frail and projecting your feelings onto others now do we?!

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