US Senate climate bill to be unveiled April 26

lieberman-180Backers hope for Senate vote in June or July

Measure could affect states’ climate control activities (Adds reaction from American Petroleum Institute) 

By Richard Cowan

 A long-awaited compromise bill to reduce U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases blamed for global warming will be unveiled by a group of senators on April 26, sources said on Thursday.

 The legislative language to be sketched out in 11 days, according to government and environmental sources, is being drafted by Democratic Senator John Kerry, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham and independent Senator Joseph Lieberman.

Backers of the environmental bill hope the unveiling will pave the way for the full Senate to debate and pass a measure in June or July if the compromise attracts enough support from a group of moderate Republicans and Democrats.

Read the rest of this story at Alert Net.

72 Responses to US Senate climate bill to be unveiled April 26

  1. Hal Groar April 17, 2010 at 7:20 am #

    Look out America! Iceland just moved to the number two position in carbon generation. We are going to have to ramp up our coal plants and get those old weed whackers running. We might have to switch back to incandescents! Iceland doesn’t have the money to be number one, the US is the only hope, we must stay at #1. Maybe if we go over there on a “humanitarian” mission, then we can be blamed for the pollution. Thats it! Whew! We are still number one!

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 11:33 am #

      Hal, we have been at #2, China has been #1 for a while now. So that means we are the new #3!

  2. cubanshamoo April 17, 2010 at 11:11 am #

    Have you ever think seriously in that N° 1 position as polluter. I think it is pure propaganda. The first polluter is the earth itself with water evaporation from oceans, with 113 volcanoes actively polluting (some with more that 1 million years of activity). Then I will think on China, India, Middle East and finally USA. Hal, USA is the N°1 in helping other nations, N°1 in promoting freedom around the world, N°1 of many many charities. I will never swallow any propaganda against your nation. All these accusations should be resumed with one word: envy. The envy of the whole world for not being able to be so fair.
    The sad point is that it is a leftist propaganda originated in your own country, amplified by the American media and that I like to call it the enemy within.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 17, 2010 at 7:19 pm #

      Don’t forget the millions of gallons of oil that seep from the ocean floor, naturally, all over the world. Environmentalists foolishly think that the Earth is this fragile thing, but in reality it is quite resiliant. Look at CO2. We have been pumping billions of tons of it into the atmosphere every year since the 40′s, and it is still measured in th PPMV. It is still just a trace gas. This is due mostly to carbon sinks obviously, but it also has to do with the volume of our atmosphere, wich is huge, it’s about 5,500,000,000,000,000 tons (that’s 5.5 quadrillion tons).

      • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 11:48 am #

        Sorry, 5,500,000,000,000,000 tons would be the mass of our atmosphere. The area, or volume, of our atmosphere is approximately 6.8 billion sq. miles. Still huge.

        • Rob N. Hood April 18, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

          Ummm…hmmmm. Right, ok, Neil… And all that oil just leaking away, wow, mother nature is such a slob. So I guess we can pretend that we can continue crapping in our own nest… that makes for a peaceful sleepy time… no worries……thanks…ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

          • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 4:35 pm #

            Well Rob you have missed my point entirely. But I’m not surprised that you would interperet my remarks that way. I am remarking on how resilliant the world is. And that it is not as fragile as environmentalists would have us believe. I did not say that polluting the environment is ok.
            I am not making up anything, however.

            http://books.nap.edu/html/oil_in_the_sea/reportbrief.pdf
            “Natural seeps occur when crude oil seeps from geologic strata beneath the seafloor
            into the water. Seeps are often used to identify potential economic reserves of petroleum.
            They contribute the highest amount of petroleum to the marine environment, accounting
            for 45 percent of the total annual load to the world’s oceans and 60 percent of the estimated
            total load to North American waters.”

            There has been oil in the oceans as long as there have been oceans. Long before humans ever started drilling for it. Don’t doubt me.

  3. Rob N. Hood April 17, 2010 at 12:41 pm #

    “Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”

    Quote: Ike Eisenhower (the last honest Repub.)

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 7:29 am #

      Other quotes from Eisenhouer:
      “A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.”
      “An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows.”
      “History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.”
      “I would rather try to persuade a man to go along, because once I have persuaded him, he will stick. If I scare him, he will stay just as long as he is scared, and then he is gone.”
      “If you want total security, go to prison. There you’re fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking… is freedom.”
      “Only Americans can hurt America.”

      It is such a simple thing to find quotes from just about anybody to fit your point of view. And quotes are really only good if you understand the context in which they were said.

      • Rob N. Hood April 18, 2010 at 2:14 pm #

        None of your Ike quotes contradicts anything I have posted anywhere. So what is your point? To prove you are right all the time about everything and that you’re rigid and nothing that goes against any of your grain has any impact on you. Oh, ok.

        • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

          I was not intending to contradict you, or prove that I am right all the time about everything. Hmmm… interesting that you would say that. Why, I didn’t strike a nerve there, did I? I said what I meant, and I meant what I said. I’m not resposible for your interperetation of it.

  4. Hal Groar April 17, 2010 at 9:04 pm #

    I can’t believe some people really believe that changing a few lightbulbs and car-pooling will affect the planet when we are watching what nature does all by itself. Man cannot come close to the destructive power of nature, we are here for the ride. Mother nature doesn’t even know we exist.

  5. paul wenum April 17, 2010 at 10:36 pm #

    It is a natural ocurrance. Does anyone get it? I quess not. As to Rob, What are espousing now?

  6. cubanshamoo April 18, 2010 at 2:31 am #

    Another N° 1 for USA. Let’s talk about human efforts in USA to protect nature. (data from Environmental Overkill, Page 90)
    Northern Spotted Owl 9.7 millions; Bell’s Vireo 9.2 millions; Grizzly Bear 5.9m; Red Cockaded Woodpecker 5.2m; Florida Panther 4.1m; Mohave Tortoise 4.1m; Bald Eagle 3.5m; Ocelot 3.0m; Peregrine Falcon 1.0m, etc, etc. After Switzerland, USA is the N° 2 in the world making reforestation. The problem with this last activity there is that Tree Huggers force EPA to regulate the forest management (removal of dry material) in order to have Gaia as virgin as it never was, and wild fires destroys millions of acres every year. Humans, industry development and technologies has shown a constat effort in USA for nature’s protection, but the green movement wants the abolition of all three: humans, industry and technology.

  7. Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 7:36 am #

    I think they just might be successful with this legislation. The climategate scandal is beginning to be mired in the mud of investigations by their buddies who are saying “nothing to see here folks”, and stories like this one from govt. agencies. http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100415_marchstats.html
    I don’t know, I think we are losing ground again.

  8. Rob N. Hood April 18, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    There have been 125,000 generations of humans, but it’s only been the last eight that have had growth.

    Don’t tell me that we aren’t impacting the planet in unprecedented ways.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

      We aren’t impacting the planet in unprecedented ways.
      Sorry, you said not to tell you that, so I could not resist…..
      Let me just ask you this; How much pollution is being spewed out of the Earth itself right now in Iceland? How many volcanic eruptions of the same or larger magnitude have there been since the dawn of man? I garantee you that since late last week more CO2 has been ejected from the Iceland volcano than man has released since the first cooking fires were lit. Get over it! The Earth is a lot tougher than you think. If we blew off a nuke every 10 sq miles over the surface of the entire world, all at the same time, it would take some time but the world would recover. We would be gone, but the Earth would still be here.
      Oh, but we’re impacting the planet in unprecedented ways….. puh leeeeezzzzzzz.

  9. Rob N. Hood April 18, 2010 at 6:39 pm #

    You are living in a fool’s paradise, as are others with your attitude. You guys talk about Liberals having “entitlement attitude.” Your attitude towards the earth is the Ultimate Attitude of Entitlement, in my opinion. (And just another example of right-wing hypocrisy). Mother earth will bite back someday and it will probably be a very harsh readjustment. But, hey what the H E double hockey sticks, in the words of an infamous politican, “we’ll all be dead by then probably anyhow”!!

    I believe that unfortunately we have already gone beyond the point of no return. Humans are smart, but not that smart, as this site demonstrates daily.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 9:46 pm #

      The Earth is not your mother!

      • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 18, 2010 at 10:09 pm #

        http://jersey.uoregon.edu/~mstrick/geology/geoFantasy_page.html
        “If you are reading this, I have to assume that you are human. And being human, you probably have a mother. Moms are remarkable creatures, and not least among their many traits is their love for their offspring, their never-ending support and devotion, and their fierce determination to make sure that their kids are safe and well and happy and that nothing really bad ever happens to them. It doesn’t matter if you’re a good kid or a rotten kid or an out and out bozo – your mom is the one creature who will always care for you.

        Since there isn’t any nice way to say this, I’ll just spit it out – the earth really doesn’t care about you at all. Not a lot, not a little bit, not at all. If something nice happens and you think that “Mother Earth” did it just for you… sorry, but it didn’t. The same goes for all the bad stuff that can happen – earthquakes, floods, volcanic eruptions, and so forth. These things are natural earth processes, and will happen no matter where you are or what you do. If you happen to get in the way, well, it’s nothing personal. Call it bad luck, call it karma, call it anything you want – just don’t blame the earth. The planet really doesn’t think about us one way or the other. Like I said, the earth is not your mother.”

        • Rob N. Hood April 19, 2010 at 3:31 pm #

          Wrong- I’m not a simpleton…. I was obviously making a point and using metaphor etc. (re: “mother earth”, etc. maybe Father Earth is better??). Do you call God a He??? If so why, and why not Her???? Do you get why this is a stupid argument???? You guys really don’t get that kind of thing do you? Everything is LITERAL and BLACK and WHITE with you all. It must be a confusing and scary way to live. Re: the post below- I recycle daily, and it is a hassle but I truly do so daily. And I do other small things to conserve energy. Also, I don’t travel much either by air or by car. To you that is probably silly and a waste of time etc. But you asked and I answered (cubansmugaroo).

          And isn’t it the right-wing howlers on radio and TeeVee who have been vocally hoping for our economy to collapse… ever since Obama was elected?? Yes it is… I’ve never said that nor do I want that. Please accuse those who are actually doing what you say I’m doing, when in reality I’m not, and they are.

          Your posts demonstrate typical right-wing infantilism. You really think we can continue to pollute and populate at will and not even pause to consider the possible implications of our actions? If that isn’t infantilism I don’t know what is.

  10. paul wenum April 18, 2010 at 9:19 pm #

    Very humble comments from a humble person? “The point of no return” is Cap N Trade and other issues before us. Belittling people makes no sense unless it is in your genes? Must be genetic is my only assumption.

  11. Cubanshamoo April 19, 2010 at 1:18 am #

    Yeah Rob, why you don’t make some kind of self sacrifize for your mother…. earth :-)))

  12. Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 19, 2010 at 5:53 am #

    So, I guess Rob is all for this legislation to protect his Mom. What a good son he is. I guess I’m just a rotten kid, but I think this legislation is going to be poison to our economy. Although I think Rob would like nothing better than to see the economy collapse. Why? Because then they can create a socialst system to take it’s place, and then Rob will be in hog heaven. Wouldn’t mom be so happy then?

  13. Rob N. Hood April 19, 2010 at 3:44 pm #

    You really don’t have a clue do you? Do you really think the planet is some kind of robot that operates in some kind of pre-programmed manner and doesn’t equlilize itself as needed? Science has shown very clearly that it does exactly that in big and small ways, sometimes both. Current human population and related impact on natural resources are NEW phenomena, and so SOME OF US THINK IT IS SMART TO STUDY THINGS THAT TO OUR KNOWLEDGE, IN THIS REALITY at least, is UNPRECEDENTED.

    No- the earth doesn’t have a brain, and no I don’t think it is “human” or even human-like, and no I don’t I take earth’s dynamics personally, etc. Your posts are extremely patronizing and juvenile. Oh, wait, I get it you are just JOKING, ok then, it makes sense now……..!!! Time to grow up, and join folks at the adult table??

  14. Hal Groar April 19, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    Rob, I do not know of one “Right winger” that actually wanted the economic collapse we have experienced. It was all too predictable, that is what you have heard. I have heard some wish the failure of the current administration, for the benefit of the American people. That is where I would stand. I have always believed that the earth would equalize out issues that effect the climate. It may do it rather slowly, but it has it’s own clock. I do not worry about population due to the simple fact that America has developed only 6% of it’s land. In other words, we have space. We can fit the population of the world in Rhode Island.

    • Rob N. Hood April 20, 2010 at 6:52 am #

      I didn’t say you or anyone else “wanted” the economic collpase that has occurred. What I said was there are right-wingers hoping for an even worse one, just so they can place the blame on Obama and win the whitehouse in 2010. THAT IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. Feel free to comment on that aspect.

  15. paul wenum April 19, 2010 at 6:31 pm #

    The Vulcano in Iceland is a classic example of natural climate change. Will be 2-5 years to have another warm spring. Climate change as you can see is natural. Always has been always will be. Man is a piece of fly poop on it’s floor as to any major effect people think we have. Devote yourself to pushing your representative to stop Cap N Trade.

  16. Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 19, 2010 at 8:04 pm #

    hey I got an idere. Let’s destroy the planet so we can’t live anymore. Wouldn’t that be a hoot!?!?!?! I want my drinkin water to be full of chemicals, arsenic and lead would be a good start. And let’s fill the air with mercury vapor!!!! If big corporations wanna polute everything, I say let em’. And let’s get rid of terlets too. We can just go in the street! Why not!?!?!?!? What the heck I’ll just pooh in my bed. No sense in gettin up, the world is dying. I wanna see babies with a hand growin out their forehead…… that would be wicked awesome!!!!!!!

    Is that what you think of me Rob? I’d say no to all of that. But it just seems to me that is how you seem to think I feel.
    I don’t think that way at all, and you know it.
    Who does not want clean water, and air? What are we talking about then? I’ll tell you, we’re talking about CO2. Carbon dioxide. It is a trace gas that is essential to all plant life. IT IS NOT A POLLUTANT!!!!!!!! I don’t care if the EPA says it is because their motivation for saying so is based on politics, and not on scientific fact.
    So go ahead, keep over-reacting. Keep typing with you veins popping out of your neck. Keep demonizing, and misrepresenting what we say. As in “the planet is some kind of robot that operates in some kind of pre-programmed manner and doesn’t equlilize itself as needed”. What?!?!?! How do you get that out of what I said?
    And as far as thinking in black or white, that is BS too. But I will say that this is a universe of opposites i.e. up and down, in and out, left and right, dark and light, and yes…. right and wrong. You live in a grey area? You think you’re right and we are wrong, don’t you? That’s pretty black and white, don’t you think?
    And as far as our impact on the planet being unprecidented……. have you ever heard of Chicxulub?

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 19, 2010 at 8:08 pm #

      Oh, and the formation of the moon was another impact greater than we could ever hope to achieve. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/moon_making_010815-1.html

    • Rob N. Hood April 20, 2010 at 7:04 am #

      Yes, I understand that there have been and could be again certain natural “impacts” upon the planet, that have great effect. That is not incongruant to what I was referring to above. But nature has more subtle ways of creating significant change, and as humans have achieved greater success and proliferation we have had a significant impact (pollution mainly to date, but there are others such as topsoil erosion for example). That is fact, and it is also fact that humans have sometimes changed their ways via laws and regulations to rectify some of these things, and very effectively too. You can deny any or all of that simple reality if you wish.

  17. paul wenum April 19, 2010 at 9:12 pm #

    Neil, Black and White is “Truth V Fiction.”

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 19, 2010 at 9:30 pm #

      You got that right! What he means when he says that is we are too narrow minded to grasp the subtle nuances, and it is crap. The funny thing is that he is always telling us how it is, and not listening to what we say. Who is narrow minded here?

  18. paul wenum April 19, 2010 at 11:00 pm #

    My grandfather would say, “narrow minded people travel the path always traveled by others.” Never changes.

  19. Rob N. Hood April 20, 2010 at 10:14 am #

    In addition to being especially submissive to established authority, Altemeyer’s research revealed that those he calls right-wing “authoritarians” also show “general aggressiveness” towards others, when such behavior is “perceived to be sanctioned” by established authorities. Finally, these people are always highly compliant with the social conventions endorsed by society and established authorities. These basic traits, submissiveness to “authority” and conventionality, are the essence of those Altemeyer describes as right-wing authoritarians. If these traits are not present in some significant (albeit varying) degree, he does not consider the subject to be a right-wing authoritarian. However, these people can, and often do, consistently reveal they have many other interesting traits as well.

    Based on Altemeyer’s study, as well as those of other social psychologists, Altemeyer prepared a list of the additional traits that these personalities, both men and women who test high as right-wing authoritarians, often evidence: highly religious, moderate to little education, trust untrustworthy authorities, prejudiced (particularly against homosexuals, women, and followers of religions other than their own), mean-spirited, narrow-minded, intolerant, bullying, zealous, dogmatic, uncritical toward their chosen authority, hypocritical, inconsistent and contradictory, prone to panic easily, highly self-righteous, moralistic, strict disciplinarian, severely punitive, demands loyalty and returns it, little self-awareness, usually politically and economically conservative/Republican.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 20, 2010 at 5:47 pm #

      http://www.verumserum.com/?p=851

      First, why is it that those who are against abortion, which as we’re frequently told is the settled law of the land, are authoritarians? Why aren’t those who argue for the pro-choice side based on the fact that “it’s the law” the true authoritarians in this case? Since when are protesters “authoritarian” in any usual sense of the word?

      And why is it not authoritarian to say that marriage should be redefined (for everyone) to include the union of any two consenting adults? It seems to me the resistance to gay marriage is only marginally greater than the support for it. Both sides argue that they are doing what is best for the whole of society. But only one view (the conservative one) is stigmatized in Dr. Altemeyer’s quiz as authoritarian.

      To be fair, Dr. Altemeyer is clear up front that there is such a thing as “left wing authoritarianism” it’s just that he believes it has all melted away. This is my major issue with his book, thus far. He seems to have been desensitized to the myriad of ways in which those LWAs who were considered radicals in the ’60s are now de rigeur. This blindspot means that, at least in my view, he is only measuring RWA and ignoring the equally strong LWA that may exist across the divide. I strongly suspect that many of those with low RWA scores would score high on an appropriately tuned LWA quiz. The problem is Dr. Altemeyer isn’t offering that quiz to his students because he doesn’t believe there’s anything there to test.

      Personally, I’m not suggesting that Dr. Altemeyer isn’t measuring something with his test. I’m sure he is. However, I’m not convinced it isn’t heavily front-loaded to produce a “bad score” for those who don’t share his political assumptions (which are more than evident in the book) and a “good score” for those who do.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 20, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

      Rob: This is a bunch of crap. Is this why you think and say these things? Because Bob Altemeyer wrote a book? A totally biased book at that. This is exactly the kind of left wing, intellectually lopsided claptrap that is dividing the country. Is this why you think you are morally, and in every other way, superior to anyone that has a right leaning philosophy? I have some news for you Rob, that entire study was done with the outcome already determined from the outset. It is the same as a climate researcher doing a study to prove global warming. Think about that.
      Perhaps you should take a look at this; http://www.experiment-resources.com/research-bias.html and then tell me if you can trust this study. Or are you exibiting a confirmation bias?

  20. paul wenum April 20, 2010 at 9:45 pm #

    Boy, I love to read thoughts from an “Educated idiot” as my deceased brother-in-law would say. By the way, absent a college education he was an author of two books that were well received. Never changes. No wonder my teachers in college looked at me in disdain. I now know based upon what I continue to hear/read. I just didn’t agree with them and nor dis they with me. Case closed.

  21. Rob N. Hood April 21, 2010 at 7:43 am #

    You must be correct Neil- the Leftists are dividing the country. Then you can sleep at night and not feel guilty of anything. What a saintly soul you are.

    I realize there are some discrepencies between Libertarians, Authoritarians and RW Anarchists/Fascists. As with all things human there are no clear-cut dividing lines. ANYTHING can be dismissed by your method of pointing out minor, or even major, differences and tossing the whole thing out. You guys do the exact same thing with regards to Climate Change. That’s your right to process information that way- but you also expect others to swallow what is quite often illogic and irrational thinking. Plus you all what a country run and ruled by dittoheads. And you are winning, with that, unfortunately, to the horror of rational logic thinkers.

  22. pojoe April 21, 2010 at 9:39 am #

    Since when do big corporation run this country ?Since when do corporation kill people for money and call it the risk off the business to cover there own criminal neglect.Since when do C.E.O buy judges to get away paying fines.Since when do oil companies buy senators .This not about the real issue G.W. but about these two industries keeping use hooked on carbon fuel for there profit.Who in there right mind would spend 147 million dollars to disprove G.W. in there was nothing in it for them.Greed is a very powerfull amotion and most off this country is caught in it.What would you call a person that sells his country for money?.That what your doing when we buy oil from the middle east and products from China in witch you are making a huge profit!!

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 21, 2010 at 8:34 pm #

      First of all, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Do you have any specific examples of big corporations running the country, or killing people? Or are you just repeating what you read at buzzflash?
      CEO’s get away with just paying fines because they hire really good lawyers. Hello?!?!?!?!
      As far as oil companies buying senators: Why shouldn’t they? Every other kind of big corporation does, not just oil companies. Ever heard of GE? Wake up!!!!!
      I always hear you left wing folks talk about profit as if it’s a bad thing. Let me ask you this: If wind, solar, and other so called alterative energy sources, are so great why don’t you put solar panels on your house, a wind tubine in your backyard, and get a car that runs on used cooking oil? Answer: Because they would not be cost effective, and would take many, many years before you could turn around the investment.
      And it sounds as though you can not discern between a profit, and a profit margin. Take a look at this graph http://everydayecon.wordpress.com/2006/04/26/oil-profit-margins-vs-other-industries/ It costs a lot of money to get oil out of the ground, and a lot of money to explore for new sources of oil. There are equipment costs, transportation costs, workforce costs, etc. etc., that they have to pay out to keep doing business. Those costs come out of their profits, and what is left is the profit margin. And as you can see, there are many industries that have more profit leftover than oil and gas companies do when it’s all said and done.
      As far as the oil companies spending 147 million dollars to disprove AGW, I would say that is rather anemic compared to what is spent to prove AGW:

      http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=104031&cat=12
      “The US Government has spent more than $79 billion of taxpayers’ money since 1989 on policies related to climate change, including science and technology research, administration, propaganda campaigns, foreign aid, and tax breaks. Most of this spending was unnecessary.”

      http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2008-03-31-gore-global-warming-campaign_N.htm
      “The alliance will initially spend $300 million over three years, although Zoi said more could be spent in the future.
      Some of the money for the campaign comes from Gore himself. Zoi said he contributed his personal profits from the book and movie “An Inconvenient Truth,” a $750,000 award from his share of the Nobel Peace Prize and a personal matching gift. She declined to provide the total amount.”

      And that is just a sample of what has been spent to prove AGW.
      I actually agree with you about buying products from China, but as far as buying oil from the Middle East I have to disagree. Did you know that the largest supplier of crude oil to the United States is Canada?
      And lastly, I just want to say that I have never been paid to be critical of AGW theory. I’m just a refrigerator repairman who thought Gore was full of crap. So I started looking at what was predicted, and compared it to what had come to pass. And what did I find? I found that every prediction made by AGW alarmists did not happen.
      So you can go ahead and believe the lie, and feel like you’re saving the world, I on the other hand will keep looking at the facts, and the truth, and continue to tell people like you how wrong you are, whether you listen or not.

  23. Rob N. Hood April 21, 2010 at 2:01 pm #

    The answer: Since the day JFK’s head was exploded in front of everyone. In my opinion anyway, that was the last day of real democracy and decency in this country. It’s been downhill ever since, except for the positive gains with regards to civil rights for women and minorities. Some good environmental things too, which Reagan and then Bush II has tried to put back into ruin, as well as the economy, and our reputation around the world. Thanks again Georgie!

    Now Neil will detail for us how much better we all are since the early 60′s. Go ahead Neil…

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 21, 2010 at 8:49 pm #

      Again, this was never a democracy, it is a representative republic.
      Did you know JFK cut taxes? If he were around today, you would be calling him a RWA. And you would probably hate him as much as you hate GWB.
      And don’t be so smug, the only thing I remember from the 60′s is watching the moon landing on tv. I was 3. I also vaugely remember my Mom giving me a bath in the bathroom sink when I was a baby. That is actually my very first memory that I could ever recall. It must have made an impression on me for some reason.
      So, no I can’t say anything about the early 60′s because I wasn’t around. Besides, you already believe we are worse off now. Why should I point out facts that you can readily avail yourself of via the world wide web? In other words GOOGLE IT!!!!!!!

  24. paul wenum April 21, 2010 at 10:07 pm #

    Watched Oswald gunned down live on TV. Neil is correct. John Fitzgerald Kennedy was basically a republican if you check his limited record until his demise. Absent the Bay of Pigs, he really never established a record. If he were alive today, he would be a republican. Check his record. I’m not a history teacher. Class you have an assignment! Go for it and let me know what you actually find. I’m curious because I know what you will find and liberals will be amazed at their findings.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 21, 2010 at 11:44 pm #

      Reagan was a Democrat. When he switched parties he said “I didn’t leave the Democrat party. The Democrat party left me.” I bet if I was the age I am now, in say 1960, I probably would identify myself as a Democrat. It just goes to show how radicalized the Democrat party has become.

      • Rob N. Hood April 22, 2010 at 6:47 am #

        That’s BS, conjecture, and shows you know nothing about JFK or his policies at the time. You guys are insane- and I don’t say that lightly or off the cuff. Everything that is or was good you say was conservative, and everything bad you somehow manage to make yourselves believe was Liberal. Even Dan does it. Being out of touch with REALITY connotes INSANITY.

        Plus, many conservatives today say the Republican party has left them. So what’s your point besides that “JFK was really Conservative”? Wow. If you guys weren’t for real this would all be hilarious. But it’s just sad and very scary.

        • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 22, 2010 at 6:25 pm #

          Not what I said. I just said he cut taxes, and you would call him a RWA. That’s all I said. Don’t go putting words in my mouth.

  25. Cubanshamoo April 22, 2010 at 12:53 am #

    Not for nothing Castro order his execution via the Cuban embassy in Mexico and later realize that after the assesination he start to be a major player in the Northamerican policy. Do you need the names and coorporations lobbying for Castro since?

  26. Cubanshamoo April 22, 2010 at 4:34 am #

    And Rob, don’t forget Oswald was a comunist, an example for your dreams. He wasn’t a reactionary Republican, not a “militant” in the list of Napolitano.
    Was the time of the killing of Trovsky, also eliminated (as JFK) by Castro’s agents, of by Castro’s useful idiots, as you will love to say

  27. Rob N. Hood April 22, 2010 at 6:54 am #

    If you really believe Castro/Cuba arranged JFK’s assassination, i.e. directly from and for Cuba you are just as insane as the other guys. Even if it did involve a Cuban or two, it had nothing to do with Castro and Cuba alone. There was Mob involvement for one, and also very probably CIA involvement on behalf of the military-industrial complex.

    JFK wanted and planned for a more humane and democratic America. For that he was murdered- it was an inside job. BTW guess who was in Dallas that very day and was employed by the CIA? George H. W. Bush.

  28. Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 22, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    OMG!!!! Can we not talk about JFK assasination conspiracy theories PLEASE!!!!!????? You guys are going to give me a headache. I’m sure there are a few websites out there specifically dedicated to that topic.
    Back to AGW please.
    Thank you.

  29. paul wenum April 22, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    Neil, Sorry I basically said JFK was a republican in spirit. Which in today’s standards, he was. Let’s get off the BS, the man’s no longer here. Let him rest in peace as well as everyone on this site. Jeez back to climate change being normal. Maybe we should be as well in our comments.

    • Neil F. AGWD/BSD April 23, 2010 at 5:59 pm #

      I wasn’t talking about what you said Paul, no need to apologize. I was just expecting CS and Rob to start doing dueling conspiracy theories. I’m not saying either one is right or wrong, I just am not that interested in the subject. I wish I knew what happened, but I’m afraid that the theories that are out there make it impossible for the truth to ever be known.

  30. Rob N. Hood April 24, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    Get a room you two. By today’s standards Nixon was a Liberal- THAT’S HOW FAR RIGHT WE’VE COME SINCE THEN. As usual Paul has it completely backwards.

    There’s one simple reason why Castro had nothing to do with JFK’s murder, or Russia for that matter. If he had, it could have, probably would have, ignited the third world war, i.e. war between US and the USSR (nuclear). Think about it.

  31. paul wenum April 24, 2010 at 7:26 pm #

    Rob does not know his history. Nobody said Castro was behind Kennedy’s demise. By the way, you don’t call off an airstrike when men are on a beach waiting. Enough said.

  32. cubanshamoo April 25, 2010 at 2:06 am #

    Rob… you stopped learning history or what? Look, I will not discuss on that because it is out of the thema, but there are more than two happy to see JFK where he is. Sometimes things happens because it should. More than 400 brave Cubans (Brigade 2506) die in Bay of Pigs as a direct consequence of many broken promises. Because of that, USA have been forced to accept Castro’s influence 90 miles from your doors. And believe me, he is not an Angel, nor Virgin Maria.
    Wake up guy, be aware you could be charged by the stern before you noticed. That’s a Cuban speciality in politics.
    Sorry Neil, I didn’t came into the conspiracy theories, but I believe this one: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,393540,00.html
    At least I meet twice with Castro (one for diving) and he was always very happy with the “exploded head in Dallas” That’s all that I can say.

  33. Rob N. Hood April 25, 2010 at 3:14 pm #

    Paul you got that right- at least because that may have been one of the reasons the CIA was able to move forward to assisting if not being fully responsible for taking out a US Prez.

    Although, no one ever said the Prez didn’t have to make some really tough choices once in awhile. Too bad he wasn’t as perfect as you.

  34. Rob N. Hood April 25, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    Comment deleted.
    Moderator: Personal insults directed at other commentators will result in commenting privledges being suspended.

  35. paul wenum April 25, 2010 at 11:55 pm #

    Thank you Cubanshammo, You even had the brigade down? Thought most people forgot about the “Bay of Pigs.” the old Mitchell B25′s were ready and in the air, remember? They don’t teach that in school nowadays. Sad that history get’s deleted for political party gain.

  36. Cubanshamoo April 26, 2010 at 1:05 am #

    Ah Rob, it is sad to speak perfect English and to use that knowledge to read garbage. Lear history of your own country baby.
    Indeed Paul, and another sad side of the story is the dozens of American citizen killed by Castro without a minimum complain of American administrations.
    It is a shame!

  37. Rob N. Hood April 26, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    Dozens killed. Oh wow! Alert the newspapers! (don’t really know what the heck he’s referring to but worth trying to make a point off of anyway) You guys are freaking amazing.

    What about the million Iraqis? A few million Vietnamese… etc. etc. etc.

  38. paul wenum April 26, 2010 at 9:33 pm #

    Rob, you know not what you speak. All emotion and hate with no facts behind it. True liberal.

    • Rob N. Hood April 27, 2010 at 8:52 am #

      wtf?! No FACTS ??!! Really Paul??

  39. Cubanshamoo April 27, 2010 at 6:43 am #

    Armando Lago dedicate his life in exile to document the crimes of Castro. Here the list of American citizen to improve the poor knowledge you have about Castro’s regime: http://www.therealcuba.com/Americans%20Killed%20in%20Cuba.htm.
    These are names, and family names (real souls) and as far I know, Mr. Lago corroborate all entries with at least 3 different and independent sources.

  40. Rob N. Hood April 27, 2010 at 8:54 am #

    I never said Castro was not an ass****. You Rightys always take a line of communicating and drift the way you want, and imagine it should go. That truly is an Alinsky tactic. You all use those tactics WAY more than I ever have or do.

  41. paul wenum April 27, 2010 at 9:44 pm #

    We don’t speak “Alinsky,” we simply state facts. There is a difference.

  42. Rob N. Hood April 28, 2010 at 8:05 am #

    No, you do Alinsky proud. You spin EVERYTHING, and apparently you don’t even realize you do it.

  43. paul wenum April 28, 2010 at 6:44 pm #

    I was taught to argue both sides. Don’t do a very good job do I.

  44. Rob N. Hood May 1, 2010 at 3:45 pm #

    Yes, very hopeless. Finally some genuine humanity from Paul. Took a long time…

  45. paul wenum May 2, 2010 at 10:51 pm #

    You are not very well at it as well.

  46. Rob N. Hood May 5, 2010 at 7:09 am #

    Hey how come you guys aren’t spreading the Greenpeace Eco-terrorist Division (GED) did it with a submarine propaganda?? You could be the first one on your block to do so. Well, it started here, remember that…

  47. paul wenum May 5, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    I don’t get into conspiracy theories. I’m not a “Jesse.” Accidents happen. Always will no matter what it may be. Almost fell off my dock last week, must have been Global wind change” that may have caused my demise! Get real.

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