Yesterday British Prime Minister Gordon Brown issue dire warnings about global catastrophes that are to come if world leaders fail to come to an agreement and sign the Climate Treaty in Copenhagen this December. His hyperbole sounds a lot like that of Al Gore in his movie, “An Inconvenient Truth.” It is interesting to note that a British judge ruled that Gore’s movie contained 9 significant errors that had to be corrected before it could be shown in British schools. We are wondering if the judge might not want to issue a ruling on Gordon Brown’s speech as well.
Right on Stork!
Stork, you need not use your real name nor do I care. It is the one’s that hide behind a name not being able to personally stand up for what they sincerely believe in is what bothers me. I do, and I’m not ashamed of it and if I’m personally chastised by my peers, so be it. Life comes with consequences. By the way, if you want to see a civilization that was advanced, check the Mayans. I have been to Chitzanitza. How they were so exact a thousand years ago is mind boggling. Interesting beyond the imagination. Maybe normal climate change caused their demise? That is one theory.
Each president recites the following oath, in accordance with Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Does he know what he said?
to Determined: Yes, but he doesn’t believe it. As we are witnessing, he is without scruple, and will do anything to ramrod through his philosophy.
Paul, I’m not hiding behind my nick, I use it out of habit, and anyone on the forums that I participate in know me as that. I could tell you my name and show you a picture of me and that still would not tell you who I am. Using a nick does not mean I don’t stand up for what I believe. Suffering to do what you believe is what demonstrates whether you stand for it or not, and that I have done, and I’m not ashamed of it.
And that’s the last I will debate this issue.
Paul, on the topic of the Mayan and exactness, yes it is very interesting. Some of their work is hard to figure out how they did it.
I have always loved perfection. I found the formula for the center frequency of a band pass filter (oops, might give away who I am) in the 80’s just becase I could not stand my teachers saying that it was impossible. All things are possible, it’s just how patient you are to do it. I find that things reveal themselves if you just watch, although watching takes many forms, sometimes with your eyes, or your heart, a microscope, or an oscilloscope.
I used to hate wasps when they buzzed around me in my garden. Once I got so angry with them that I sprayed all their nests around my house, which was unusual for me, I hate using chemical sprays since I don’t know what the future consquences will be and they are most always unncessary. Well, low and behold, my okra started rotting. So I started pulling off the dead flowers before they rotted and it saved the okra pods from rotting. After some time, maybe a week or so, the wasps were back, and so I watched them. The wasps ate around the flower just before it rotted and the flowers fell to the ground. Crap, I had killed my friends, and now I consider them just that. My garden has all kinds of insects in them these days and I get good crops and they get, well, what ever it is that they use it for, building their homes, feeding their children, etc….
Maybe the Mayans watched, and learned.
Stork, forgive me but your identity is not important to me, nor others. You do not hide behind a shield as some others do and for that I respect you. You seem like a very logical person and that is what this site needs. People with open minds, not closed and hate filled as others. I’m glad to see that you are a steward of the land. We all should be. I come from farming country such as my wife. By the way, Tomatoes are my favorite. One a day I say. Cannot stand store purchased, it’s like eating concrete. They must be off the vine at my son-in-laws place. I’m into organic grass fed bison, venison, salmon, vegetables etc., however, climate change is natural. I cannot state it enough times. I’m like a broken record. I love to see people working to get the environment better. For that you seem to be doing an excellent job. As to Cap & Tax, climate change. If legislation passes, you and I, my friend, will possibly be living off the land as well as others with no jobs or future in hand. Think about it Stork and let me know your thoughts. By the way, the Mayans had a unique way of playing games. The winner lost and was beheaded. No wonder they no longer exist! Later.
Stork, As to wasps/bees, a little tip from the “old Scot.” Wait until dark, boil a big pot of water and then knock the nest down and immediately pour the scalding water on the wasps/bees etc. /they are gone. Better than napalm. Just kidding. I do it every year at my cabin. No chemicals and cost is noting!. Works fantastic.!
Gentlemen, if I may;
I am not a scholar of higher grade as you all seem to be, I am merely a Portuguese engineer residing in the United States of America for the past 30 years. As my training and professional experience have thought me, observation is a key factor in today’s complicated society’s structure. As we all grow and expand as “humanity†will do, I must point out the intent of this matter related to the global warming issue, or not. With this said, I couldn’t help noticing that neither of you actually addresses the riddle at hand, going on about your daily little things whether one hides behind a nick name, or the wasp’s outcome in scalding water, etc. I have to agree with Stork however, pointing out how everything is possible and how watching and patients can take on many forms however, as life has shown me, we humans have a dreadful tendency when in our comfort zone, to become distracted from our own reality and squabble on about all that is irrelevant. I do that myself, and detest it as much as well.
So, are you believers of this or not?
As individuals of higher intellect such as yourselves, let me ask you this; Is it possible that the planet is going through its normal cold/warm cycles as it has done in the past? I understand that humanities’ by products, whether over populating in some areas thus modifying the surroundings in order to support such a demand, or the exhaustion of natural resources on other parts of the globe just to mention a few, have an impact on the cycle of life surround us and in turn affect the planet’s climate, but is it really this bad, or should we consider special interests?
DaSilva,
I believe that special interests are at play. And I would say that they are at play at both ends of the conversation. But, we in the middle should watch closely as to how it effects the little ones and take action in the best direction.
Taking a side on an issue, does not mean that we are on a particular political side. If the republicans are against Cap & Trade and the Climate Treaty and I also am against those things, that does not make me a republican. We both are just on the same side of this particular issue, although, perhaps, for different reasons. The same goes for an issue that I might agree with the liberals on in some certain vein.
The earth has gone though huge climate changes and sea level changes. The question is if man has a large effect and if so, is it an unpleasant one. I think perhaps some, but not to the degree we might think. But, the question really is this: Even if we are impacting the climate, whats the best thing we can do. Carbon credit trading is in no way a good answer to any supposed problem like this. If anyone thinks that the toxic asset trading was bad for the little ones, carbon credit trading would be even worse. The question from that is then, are these schemes just to make the rich richer and the powerful more powerful? I think so.
Here’s a link to show one view of the earth’s climate history: http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm
And yes, I agree, mankind seems to need an enemy. So, if we get comfortable and are distant from conflict then we fight with one another. I have been curious about this for many years. Perhaps it is part of the same to accuse others for our own mistakes. I don’t think mankind has ever found real happiness, only comfort.
So, much for my rantings………
Hello Dasilva. You correct on the nit picking back & forth, name calling its a waste of time. I have been mentioning that for awhile when ever I write. There are more pressing matters at hand. The statement “is it possible” should be change to “absolutly that is the case” Nobody whats to see passed the emotional high they are on to hear whats passing as a lie, coming from Al Gore & Mr Obama. The media has gotten the people in panick mode. If people would just take the time out to do alittle research, they see what the planet has gone in the past. Our place on this planet is in a sence is meaningless compared the bigger picture. This planet will shake us off like flea’s from a dog. It’s a proven fact the planet as gone through so many change’s, cooling, warming and so on. The best weapon a government has is a distracted public mind. While all the time moving toward their main goal. I am really afraid no one will pay attention til its to late.
JOHN ADAMS:THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO CONQUER OR ENSLAVE A NATION ONE IS BY SWORD THE OTHER IS BY DEBT
Paul, I don’t kill wasps anymore, I just gently swat them out of my way if they get too nosey around my head, we have an understanding now 🙂
And what I currently think about this global warming thing, I have stated before on this site, but here’s a brief:
Climate change is normal for the planet, and is caused by more factors than mankind can figure out any time soon.
Some of those factors are sun, galaxy, plate shift, weather patterns (that are effected by warming/cooling and then effect warming cooling), plants, etc…how much effect each has is yet to figured out.
Man’s effect on the planet is considerable from an appearance point of view, but how much effect on the overall weather is hard to tell.
CO2’s effect on the weather may never be known for political reasons.
The current trend in environmental issues seem to be more political and religious than scientific (same can be said about any issue).
Making carbon credits to trade on markets will steal the people blind.
A small group of people cannot handle making decisions for everyone
The majority has no right to dictate to the minority (freedeom for all).
Depleated uranium weapons could have as much effect on the climate as CO2 (you can take that however you wish)
What do I believe should be done?
Each man/woman take responsibility for himself/herself and see to their own growth as a human before throwing stones (2×4 in the eye?)
Take care of the earth as a personal choice where he/she can in their own lives.
Try not to buy junk, less demand will decrease the energy/resources used to make it, and less garbage (less methane/CO2 generated from decaying).
Some of the processes of recyling are actually worse than dumping it and letting it rot back into the earth (that’s where it came from).
Get knowlege, get knowlege, get knowlege. Spend time watching and considering. Less time in front of TV, under the headphones/mp3 players, more time watching, considering (ie, quiet time).
More truth and variety of knowlege in schools (fair and balanced truth with liberty and justice for all).
Think of others as human too with pain, ignorance, knowlege, stuggles, goals, triumphs, failures, depression, etc.
That a man should enjoy the fruit of his labor (and same for women, I include woman as in mankind in this sense). A happy person is less likely to damage others 🙂
Oh, and:
The world is the way it is because we are the world.
Change will come when I change myself.
They are pulling the wool over to cover so many things and get us thinking away from the fact that they are reigning in our freedom, our soverinty, Constitutional rights and in general taking us as far away from the foundation that the United States was formed for…..they take faith out of everything, our kids brainwashed to accept things that are not right, taking our jobs, our guns, our borders, our money and jobs away to break us down so we will have to listen to them and be taken into socialism….not freedom, honor and the American way…….yes, we need to conserve and recycle but if the climate is changing it’s the universe that is doing it per history…..yes we need to cut down on carbon and air pollution but we do NOT have to be a one world order run by the UN and a socialistic leader to do it!!!!!!
Gee Stork you sound like a Commie (not really, to me anyway, haha).
“The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.” – Eric Hoffer
Paul’s way is the Republican way- you dont’ like something just kill it.
Stork and others,
Note that “Robby Boy” has to wait for his responses from the DNC to make his opinions known. Yes, I’m a Republican. That said, I’m tired of both parties not sitting down, having normal discourse on anything. The majority of people I talk to say the same thing. I’m tired of “rino’s” that put their fingers in the wind as well as Democrats. Yes, I’m for lower taxes to get the economy going, less government intrusion in our life’s as well as letting the free market prevail. Do I support anarchary/riots? NO! The people have to get off their Arse and start reading/thinking just what the hell is going on and” the bottom line”, how it effects every american in their daily lives. Climate change is nature from what I have observed/read/researched. Am I scientist? No, but I believe, as you, that the American people have “common Sense” that is sorely missing on the State and National level. Finally, as you will note from the “ranting Robbie Boy,” he changes the subject. Typical Saul Alinski tactic. Liberal’s never change, only their fingers in the wind. Robby Boy, get a job as we all do, or are you waiting for the “stimulus package???
I have two jobs as I’ve mentioned before. It is you who “rants.” You seem very unstable. That usually occurs when one is two years old and doesn’t get ones way. You beleive you are rational and tolerant and able to coooperate with others such as myself but I know better. Almost every one of your repsonses illustrates your intolerance and narrow-mindedness. We all want better things for this country. But your vision on what needs to be done is flawed, and you will not work with any Liberals for real, that’s a big lie. Obama tried to work with the Republicans and got shot down immediately, which of course is what happened to Clinton too. They will try and impeach Obama too I am sure. That is what the Republicans are good at- attacking, and not compromising. That is your strength as a party- unfortuantely it opens you up to corruption and evil. When you guys “follow the leader” you REALLY follow your leaders. I only wish the Democrats could be that way a little bit more. But that is what I originally liked about them, they truly wanted real democracy and gave minority groups a seat at the table. Republicans don’t even want any Democrats at any table. Is that democracy? No of course it isn’t. What is that? Fascism.
Those who are working to bring in one world government, try to turn everything into a crisis, in order to get
people to accept more governmental control. Brown thinks that man wil destroy the planet. That is an absolute impossibility, man cannot destroy the planet,
only the Sovereign Creator, and sustainer can, and in fact He will Himself destroy the Heavens and Earth and make them over. And God Himself will
pollute the Earth more than man ever can, when He pours His wrath out in judgment upon a Christ rejecting Earth.
Robbie Boy, What is the definition of “transparency.” Get a real life. A shill you are, a shill you will be. Your two jobs must be the DNC and Gore’s Lap Dog!
What a load of crap. Just another excuse to bring in lots of carbon footprint taxes. Don’t get suckered in.
Once again you fail to respond to what I said in any meaningful way. Why do you bother?
Jason, read my post about Cap and Trade on that article listed below.
No waste of our time needed. Need I say more?
Rob N Hood our fore fathers created a Republic not a Democracy look it up
Phil, I doubt he knows that we are a republic. Darn it we showed our hand. Climate change is natural is all I have to say as well as be prepared to vote in 2010!!!.
Uh, Duh, a democratic Republic to be exact, uh huh, me too stupid I guess, ahuh ahuh…
What is it about democracy you don’t understand my “knowledgeable” and self-righteous friend?
Except that maybe, as a right-winger and being much closer to fascism than I am, you don’t think we have or should have democracy? The main problem now is that we really don’t, and should. I think even Pauly Boy and Neil believe in “democracy”, as I do. Please enlighten one so dull as me about your opinion about that. On that note, wasn’t it democracy Bush kept talking about all those 8 years and how he ws going to bring that uniquely American invention to other countries, etc. etc.?? At least as an excuse for his wars, anyway, I’m not sure he really meant it for real.
Let’s get back on the subject at hand. Climate change is natural. Throwing daggers both ways is a waste of your time as well as others.
I had to reply to such an inane and stupid taunt.
Anyone who has driven through the Rocky Mountains and other high-altitude Western areas in recent months has seen the work of the mountain pine beetle. Pine trees that once spread gloriously over millions of acres are now either dead or dying.
The beetle, not much bigger than a bedbug, is native to the West and has always been known as a tree killer. For centuries it has killed a few diseased trees here, a patch of trees there, but never before has it caused destruction on the scale being seen today.
U.S. Forest Service scientist Jesse Logan and other forest researchers have discovered that the beetles are responding to higher average temperatures by breeding almost nonstop. They are no longer being held in balance by the lower winter temperatures that once prevailed.
The death of so many trees, which imperils the habitat of animals and threatens catastrophic forest fires, is further evidence that the planet is warming at an alarming rate. Appearing on a National Public Radio show this week, Logan said the warming is not part of a natural cycle, as many climate-change deniers insist. “It is directly our actions that are taking these forests out,†Logan said.
Scientists around the world agree with Logan: Human activity, principally the burning of fossil fuels for energy, is responsible for rapidly accelerating warming. Worldwide consequences include the melting of polar ice and weird weather, including shorter springs and extended summers that cause droughts.
That is why Congress is nearing debate on a climate-change bill that would cap the emissions of greenhouse gases from American industries and set goals for converting to non-emitting power sources such as solar and wind. Greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, trap heat in the atmosphere that would otherwise escape harmlessly into space.
It is imperative to pass this bill so more and bigger changes in energy production can start immediately. Those who deny the urgency should take a drive through the West.
Robbie Boy, I have been there many times. In fact last October. It has not CHANGED! What about the Ash borer in Minnesota? Must be “Global warming.”????
I strongly suggest that you take a vacation and actually get outdoors once in awhile. The Carp that came from Europe must have been Global warming as well?? Do you ever go outdoors?
Robbie Boy, for what you quote or claim is yours was on the net last week. I see that you read but do you understand? I doubt it.
Since the era of Ronald Reagan, 40th president of the United States, (1981-1989), the labor movement in America has slowly but inexorably been whittled away.
“Reaganomics”, the name for President Ronald Reagan’s supply-side economics, basically deregulated corporations and granted tax cuts for the rich.
The rest of the country suffered and still suffers. Millions of Americans have lost their jobs; millions are threatened with loss of their homes; millions have seen their retirement funds melt before their eyes; millions are threatened with loss of health care. As Americans on Main Street are being devastated, executives of bailed out banks continued to receive billions in bonuses.
The working class is in a state of paralysis today. Corporate America has smashed the unions, bought out Congress and the Executive Branch and rules supreme. President Barack Obama, a creature of the corporate oligarchy, carries out their orders. His betrayal of the people who elected him is painfully obvious.
But the country is in a fragile state. With two senseless and futile wars sapping our treasure and human resources for more than seven years and other wars continually threatening, the ruling elite faces an economic collapse.
Turning the nation into a militarized state seems the only way to keep it going.
With that famous phrase “military-industrial complex”, used for the first time on January 17, 1961, President Eisenhower warned, “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist…”
Capitalism is, again, facing its eternal contradiction.
The Founders knew how difficult it is not only to do what’s right, but first to decide what’s right. That’s why they divided power among three branches, and between two chambers, and between the federal government and the states. It’s why they protected the press with the First Amendment, so that an independent Fourth Estate could act as a check against official truth. It’s why they kept religion out of government, and government out of religion, so that fundamentalism couldn’t tell legislators what laws to write, and so that the state couldn’t tell people what to believe. And it’s why Jefferson and Franklin were champions of public education and public libraries: ignorance is the enemy of freedom.
Keep the sound bites coming. You will never change. Did you vote? Of course not! It doesn’t count, does it!
Robbie Boy will not answer. Did you VOTE? Yes, NO??