Is Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty?
Posted by admin in Bad Policy, Cap and Trade, Public PolicyOn October 14, Lord Christopher Monckton, a noted climate change skeptic, gave a presentation in St. Paul, MN. In this 4-minute excerpt from his speech, he issues a dire warning to all Americans regarding the United Nations Climate Change Treaty, scheduled to be signed in Copenhagen in December 2009.
Lord Monckton served as a policy adviser to Margaret Thatcher. He has repeatedly challenged Al Gore to a debate to which Gore has refused. Monckton sued to stop Gore’s film “An Inconvenient Truth” from being shown in British schools due to its inaccuracies. The judge found in-favor of Monckton, ordering 9 serious errors in the film to be corrected. Lord Monckton travels internationally in an attempt to educating the public about the myth of global warming.
There has been considerable debate raised about Monckton’s conclusion that the Copenhagen Treaty would cede US sovereignty. His comments appear to be based upon his interpretation of the The Supremacy Clause in the US Constitution (Article VI, paragraph 2). This clause establishes the Constitution, Federal Statutes, and U.S. TREATIES as the supreme law of the land. Concerns have been raised in the past that a particularly ambitious treaty may supersede the US Constitution. In the 1950s, a constitutional amendment, known as the Bricker Amendment, was proposed in response to such fears, but it failed to pass. You can read more about the Bricker Amendment in a 1953 Time Magazine article.
Click here to watch Lord Monckton’s entire 95-minute speech in which he utterly destroys the so-called ’science’ behind global warming.
Click here to read a draft copy of the treaty.
Click here to see Obama’s speech to the UN on Climate Change.
Click here to learn what you can do to stop this from happening.
More video: Minnesota Majority’s interview with Lord Monckton [Part 1] [Part 2] [Part 3]
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It’s a pity that most Americans haven’t the slightest idea that this is going on and if you told them, their eyes would glaze over in boredom and skepticism. These are the people who have taken their God-given right to freedom for granted and most of them probably voted for The Anointed One and still believe his rhetoric and have no idea what he and his inner circle have in store for us. We will lose our freedom and our sovereignty because of their trust in this evil man, who has another 3 years to defile the White House and further ruin our lives.
Ditto to what Carol Arment says. America should be awakened to what is happening with this present administration which is taking our freedoms away from us.
And double ditto! People I try to wake up even gently get angry. From my research, I understand this is what happens to brainwashing victims. Very scary.
You believe in a conspiracy against the people of the USA? You believe that secret people are planning to take over? Whow that is frightening
….How can you sleep at night? Do you think that they are allians? Are they green and rather small? Will they eat us? What is their goal you think?
Strange people you are…
As long as the United States is free and prosperous, all the socialist nations of the world hav to explain to their people why they are not as prosperous and free as the US. Productive people desire freedom and success that they can find in the US, which is why so many immigrate here. Our existence as it now is is a threat to the failing socialist orders around the world. Aliens? No. Europeans, perhaps. The great lie of socialism is that it lifts people up out of poverty. In truth, it only lowers everyone else. Knock the US down, steal our wealth and freedom and the rest of the socialist nations don’t look so bad anymore.
It’s like i’ve been saying. Those that voted and or defend, obama, knows that he is a socialist/communist (don’t know the difference. I guess we got what we dexerved. How many didn’t go out to vote against him?. This country is going down the tubes, FAST. Well we only have 3 more years of this. Thanks be to GOD.
It only took the Nazis three years to completely transform Austria into a totalitarian socialist state. Three years is long enough to do a lot of damage. Congressional elections next year could put a stop to it, though.
Karl, where do you live? If its in the USA i would have to say you are also drinking the O coolaid. The your posting shows a very misinformed, unread individual. Someone who wants to belittle people who see things differently than you do. You really need to get a life and look at the facts first and than debate someone who may show what type of intellect you truly are.
Why will not British media allow a ‘Clash of the Titans’ by having Lord Monckton in the Blue corner and Lord Stern in the Green Corner as a ‘debate on climate change’ right way?. If Lord Monckton is in America all the better. I’m sure satterlite video conferencing would not beyond the wits of our front communicators.
Debate supporter
I believe Lord Monckton will be in Copenhagen next week. Perhaps he’ll find someone brave enough to take him on there.
Where can we sign and stop this
NoCapAndTrade.com Sign the petition here and see what else you can do.
Do Not SIgn any document that says we will be under the rule of a global government.
This is nothing less than a huge lie being pushed on the people, and we are staunchly against it! WE THE PEOPLE do not want this. We want our leaders in Washington to LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!!!! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAS TRUSTED YOU TO LISTEN TO OUR CONCERNS AND TO FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND REPRESENT US, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, NOT SOME FOREIGN SUBJECT OR LEADER OR NATION OR ANYONE ELSE!!! WE THE PEOPLE HIRED YOU TO REPRESENT US!! WE HIRED YOU, AND WE CAN AND WILL FIRE YOU IF YOU FAIL TO WORK FOR US and support ONLY what is in our best interest first, and if this helps others, that is a blessing to all of us, but if it is NOT in our best interest, stay away from it!!! This “cap and trade” deal is predicated on a lie!! False information, and cooked to make it APPEAR to be what it IS NOT!!
Many people who are promoting this lie are the very ones who will become rich from it!!!! WE THE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN “TAKEN” ONE TIME TOO MANY TO BE FALLING FOR THIS ONE!!!!! We’ve watched our Beloved country being taken over by those who WE ELECTED TO REPRESENT US….NOT THE FAT CATS WHO THINK WE OWE THEM SOMETHING!!!!! It seems that when people go to Washington, their priorities change the minute they set foot on Capitol Grounds!!!
WE ARE FED UP WITH THE ATTITUDES OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND VERY DISAPPOINTED IN THIER LACK OF REPRESENTATION TO THE PEOPLE WHO SENT THEM THERE TO WORK FOR US!!! NOT TO LINE THEIR POCKETS WITH MONEY, NOR TO STAY THERE FOR A LIFETIME, AND THOSE TWO THINGS WILL BEGIN TO CHANGE WITH THE VERY NEXT ELECTION. SOME “CHANGE” IS NOT WORTH TAKING A SECOND LOOK AT, AND SOME OF THOSE IN WASHINGTON WILL NOT BE WORTH GIVING A SECOND LOOK OR CHANCE OR VOTE!!
Your point beeing?
Let the world die? Kill your children and grandchildren? Let the flooding in the USA and other countries continue? Cut the trees in the Amazone and therewith our lung out of of body’s. What is your point? You are the most poluting county in the world is that your right? Is it your right to do NOTHING about this? Stange people you are……..
Yes. Obviously, our objective is the destruction of the world. We won’t be satisfied until everyone on Earth is poisoned and burning up! You’re on to us!
Everyone wants a healthy environment, you poor deluded soul. Some us us just aren’t so caught up in the religion of it that we can no longer see sense. Carbon dioxide isn’t a pollutant. The climate has always changed and will continue to do so - there’s not a damn thing we can do to stop that. History shows that warm periods are good for humanity, so I’d be happy to see an upswing in temperatures - though the current data doesn’t offer much hope for that in the near future. Strange people you Dutch are…
NOBODY is saying that the United States has the right to pollute and nobody else does, and that we shouldn’t be responsible stewards of the earth’s resources. America is not EVIL… the United States has given aid to more countries and defended the freedom and liberties of many a nation and has rarely been given the same in return. If our country hadn’t given so much away maybe we wouldn’t have so much debt. Maybe if our country stopped outsourcing all kinds of manufacturing we wouldn’t have the highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression. America is gthe envy of the world, and that is why EVERYBODY wants to come here. But, now it’s for the wrong reason. They want to come here for a hand out [welfare] instead of making the country BETTER by going to work!!!! I am so SICK AND TIRED of the demonization of the greatest country GOD ever instituted. And the reason this country is going down hill FAST and is in this self destruction mode is because our GOVERNMENT has REMOVED GOD!
I so agree with you Laura! Every word!
Delete it if you wish to, but this is how I feel, and I’m glad for the chance to say how I feel about this, and our elected officials. What I have said is what I truly believe. THank you for the opportunity to express my concerns, but if you feel they are offensive, I’m simply being honest) you can omit them.
Lord Monckton as w/ most western Europeans still don’t how our republic and government works, the president can sign any treaty he wants, but the U.S. Senate
is the ONLY ones whom CAN pass the treaty. Our presidents have signed treaties in the past and our senate did not approve them. The U.N. exempted the U.S. from binding treaties an anything that restricted our sovereignty to get us to join. Our Constitution requires a 2/3rds vote of the senate to be made into binding law. Plus a simple 2/3rds vote of the senate can reverse any treaty we have today with anyone. SO the likelihood of this TREATY passing our senate is very UNLIKELY.
Do you really believe Obama is not able to coerce the Congress into passing this treaty?
How can I get transcripts of speeches by Lord Monckton?
Here is in Spanish!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-n_o22X9s
Say NO to the coppenhaguen treaty!
PLEASE DO NOT SIGN THIS HORRIBLE DOCUMENT. DO NOT GIVE AWAY OUR GOD GIVEN FREEDOM.
Have you read this treaty? Is is ready? How can you be against something you have not even seen?
Strange people you are….
We have seen it. We understand the intent presented through the UNFCCC draft and the Danish Text, along with the statements of our esteemed leaders and the laws that have already been pushed through around the world. The whole premise is bad - based on fraud, lies and more fraud, so it’s easy to be against it. The only action that should be taken on global warming right now is prosecutions of the perpetrators of this scam.
Stop Obama from signing the Coppenhaguen treaty.
Stop this madness!!! Don’t throw our county and freedom to the wind. we are the nation of nations with God as our leader - Americans do not sleep through this one - rise up and take our country back to the greatness it was in the beginning!
Quite emotional I would say. The world is changing and you may want to consider changing with it. If you dont you get left behind. You have been material in the change that is taking place. The greatness has disappeared when you started to take on the world and lie and cheat. I have news for you folks: you are not allone on this planet…….there are others…..
STOP Al Gore’s greed driven carbon trading scam which is based on pseudo science! 50 years ago I was taught that it takes 6 tons of CO2 to produce 150 bushels of corn per acre: This 6 tons of CO2 provides 2 tons of Carbon, while the corn release 4 tons of O2 back into the atmosphere!!! CO2 is an essential component in the Carbon cycle! ALL green plants require CO2 in order to develop and produce Oxygen as a byproduct of the photosynthesis process. Please contact me for the REAL PROOF and cause of climate change!
Don’t sign on to this fraud. The earth has been warming since the last ice age!
I.E. we can do as we like and push as much CO2 in the air as we can? We do not have to care about the world? What is your point? Is your point that if all the countries in the world reach the same level of polution as you, we have reached a goal of this is no problem? Strange people you are…
CO2 is not pollution!!!
Our constitution states no treaty can supersede it. The ” Supremacy Clause” article VI
Clause 2: He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls. And the United Nation agreement to honor the MONROE DOCTRINE thus the U.N. can not take any U.S. sovereignty or change our constitution.
We need to stop these Admin from taking our freedoms
This is where we should focus our energies, on making sure the U S Senate does not ratify this treaty if the Imposter signs it.
They never ratified the Kyoto accords.
Bill Clinton was right not to sign Kyoto treaty, now about 20 yrs later the U.S. is already half way to the Kyoto standards set back then with private industry do what they do. NO HELP OR REGULATION FROM THE GOVERNMENT. I guess Kyoto was a success without signing it. This is why we should not sign the Copenhagen Treaty.
PLEASE! DO NOT sign this treaty! What gives ANYONE the right to speak for any 1 American regarding their freedom? NO ONE! We, as a whole country, do not NEED this! We ALL have lost sight of the purpose government plays in our lives! It is not to rule us! The government works for US, lets take our country back, America!! GET THESE CROOKS OUT OF OFFICE!!! REFLECT ON PATTON AND WHAT HIS VIEW WOULD BE ON ALL THIS!! IF YOU DONT KNOW WHO HE IS, ASK YOUR GRANDFATHER!! DONT EVEN TRUST THE HISTORY BOOKS, MEDIA OR INTERNET TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM, EITHER!! I wish we could all get that kind of spirit back!!! FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM, PEOPLE!!!!!!
I am in total agreement that this president and his extreme cronies are going to send this once great country down the proverbial tubes. When he was running for office, he took a tone of moderate poliics, promising inclusion of all and total tranparency. In the past 11 months, we see what a farce that promise was. For me, being 62 years of age, his broken promises and stripping of our countries wealth and freedom will not affect me long, but my children and grandchildren will be suffering for years.
1) I am an American serving with the unorganized civilian militia which guards my homeland, our Constitution, and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
2) I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender the members of my command while they have the means to resist.
3) If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means possible. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
4) If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
5) When questioned, Should I become a prisoner of war, I am bound to give only name, rank, and date of birth. I will make no oral or written statement disloyal to my beloved homeland and its citizens or harmful to their continued struggle for liberty and freedom as prescribed in the Constitution for these United States.
6) In all cases, I shall endeavor to instruct and to inform members of organized militia units, seeking to persuade them to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic; urging them for justice and conscience sake to return America to the Constitutional Republic our forefathers envisioned.
7) I will never forget that I am an American, a citizen of the greatest nation on earth, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will place my trust in Almighty God, the United States of America, and the goodness of her people.
MILITIA PRAYER:
O God, our Father, The Searcher of mans heart, help us to draw near to Thee in sincerity and truth. May our personal faith in Thee be filled with gladness and may our worship of Thee be natural and pure.
Strengthen and increase our admiration for honest dealing and clean thinking, and suffer not our hatred of hypocrisy and pretense ever to diminish. Encourage us in our endeavor to make us to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong, and never be content with a half truth when the whole can be won. Endow us with courage that is born of loyalty to all that is noble, honorable, and worthy; that scorns to compromise with vise and injustice and knows no fear when truth and right are in jeopardy. Guard us new ties of friendship and new opportunities of service. Kindle our hearts in fellowship with those of a cheerful countenance, and soften our hearts with sympathy for those who sorrow and suffer. Help us to maintain the honor of the Militia, our State, & Nation untarnished and unsullied, and to show forth in our lives the ideals of this Nation’s Constitution in doing our duty to Thee and to our fellow citizens. All of which we humbly ask in the Name of our Lord our Great Friend and Defender, and Master of men.
Amen
Your views are quite intresting. Are living on planet Earth? Do you know there actual people living in the rest of the world? Do you know that this issue is about global warming and not about you and your intresting thoughts? Do you ever reed a newspaper in which there is no news about a natural discomford or a disaster? Do you realy think that this is all coincitental? Do you not see that you are killing your children and grandchildren by poluting the world with CO2? Do you really think there is no connection between CO2 and global warming? Do you really think that your God wanted us to live in a world without taking care of it and its people? It seems to me that your views are limited to your own mile2.
You may want to consider that there is more than just you and your buddy’s. God’s people are not limited to you and your friends.
Yes. I think there’s no connection between CO2 and global warming - because there isn’t. You have been deceived and need to study the issue for yourself. Good luck.
Wow. This issue just sends you people to the moon! Where was this outrage when Bush actually took our freedoms away? When him and his cronies killed thousands of Americans by bombing the WTC to help start a nonsensical war to kill thousands more? Does your denial run so deep that it causes you to strike out at the current administration and demonize it to appease your guilt for supporting such a horrid, republican one? Sheesh. It’s a little late, kids. Our country was ruined a few years ago.
Tom, you seem to be one of the few people on this to be actually using your brain. The amount of people regurgatating the republican propaganda they’ve been spoon-fed as though it was something akin to rational thought is truly frightening. The only thing more frightening is that these brainwashed robots are legally allowed to carry weapons!
I dont think the president can sign away our sourverign country’s rights by treaty to a new world government. Lets hope the senate does not confirm any ratification of this proposed treatey. Beyond that, We need to stop this madness about the environment. I am tired of this countries lack of political leadership. we have an election coming this next year and it is time for them to go. All of them. They are out of touch. Period. Itis time the people act to save this country.We need new blood. New blood with be the life blood and keep polititans honest about representing the will of the people here in America WE MUST be diligent and not neglect our responsibility to vote. Time for them TO GO.
An actual treaty isn’t likely now. Instead, it appears there will be (as Lord Monckton warned was likely) an “executive agreement.” Such an agreement would have the same effect as a treaty, but wouldn’t even require ratification by the Senate. With the recent EPA endangerment finding, Obama could actually go it totally alone, bypassing Congress entirely and enforcing any agreements he makes in Copenhagen by executive decree.
I believe any treaty must be ratified by Congress, of course with the current crew, it could be just a rubber stamp - EXACTLY WHAT constitutes an impeachable offense (talk about tyranny from within) ?? This president is the BIGGEST MISTAKE the American public has ever made.
Just remember, NEVER give up your right to own a firearm, whether you own one or not, DON’T GIVE UP THE RIGHT (or we will be like Mexico, Venezuela, or Cuba).
Climate change isn’t the issue and never has been. Power and wealth are the core issues for the people who instigated the whole ruse. Bringing people into submission and killing off the rest. Third world countries will not benefit from any agreement or treaty made in Copenhagen. The purpose seems to be more inclined toward bleeding the more prosperous countries dry to disable them from reacting to takeovers. If they can succeed in making America and other properous countries to take on the overwhelming burden they suggest, those countries will have populations sitting around in various stages of starvation as seen in Africa. What easier way to eliminate the “dregs” of society. That or gun them down when they resist…
God Help Us !
Obama is proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time !!
65% of American adults have more management experience than Obama, including your paper-boy!
Obama’s “stimulus bill” included $4 billion for ACORN, the Democrat facing voter fraud group which has been indicted n 24 states
and exposed on TV for supporting teen prostitution !!
Do all you can to slow down the “man-child” president !!!
Be critical!!! But be critical toward Monckton also!!
Everybody knows and feels thad a horrible change in our climate is taking place. Doing nothing is not the answer. Some people feel that criticisme is a “free for all” to continue pumping CO2 in our air. WRONG! We need to act and we need to act now. This learned man is a manipulator, that is why he is a Lord. He got this title because he can manipulate better than you and I. Look arround you, reed a paper, notice what happened in recent times to weather and climate… We need to act! We may not be able to stop carbon emission but we can reduce our polution and postpone the effects that we can see arround us.
We must stop cutting down the lungs of the world in the Amazone and the far East. We need the oxygen.
Be brave and do something because your children and grandchildren will blame YOU if you do not act!!!!!
You worry about admin not about the problem. You USA citizens have sunk low to ignore that you are the main polluter of the world. Your emmission is double to 10 times higher than any other country in the world. Do you not feel ANY responsibility? As long as you are doing OK the rest of the world can die?
Strange people you are…self centered, egoistic, worldstrange, inward looking people. Look outside see what is going on in the world!!
It is slowly suffocating and it is your fault………deal with that when the last day comes.
It’s so sad how the Dutch school system has failed you. I know you can’t see it through the indoctrination, but you are deceived. Good luck.
HEY, here’s an idea… let’s outsource all of the industries that create pollution and go back to the stone age and worship the planet instead of God. Why should we do anything to help mankind? I wish people could see through the lies of the REAL ENEMY here! If I were the devil and I wanted to destroy mankind I would do everything I could to convince him that he is a worthless piece of $h!t that doesn’t deserve to even exist because animals and plants are more sacred. I would do everything I could to get all of them fighting against each other and killing each other… I would invent ways for them to exploit and abuse each other in every possible way. I would corrupt and make everything that is good into something evil. The human race needs a wake up call… a miracle from God. A warning. I believe God will provide out of his love for us… but we have to be listening and willing to do what needs to be done.
do you have flouride in the water in your country. it stops people from questioning authority
we do not want President Obama to sign this treaty since it does away with the freedoms that we have in the United States. we will keep praying for President Obama and will send him a Christmas card with the real meaning of Christmas and hope that others will do the same. If enough Bible believing Christians get involved maybe it will make an impact on him and others that open the mail. Praying Marshall & Nancy Whiddon
I just watched Monckton’s presentation on YouTube and I have just read the draft treaty to which he refers.
It is of concern to me that he claims that the word elect is not used once in the treaty. I counted 12 uses of the word in various contexts.
Us plebs in the rank and file of humanity have no means by which to gauge the truth about the climate change issue. We receive information, disinformation and everything in between.
I contend that IF climate change is real and IF it is being substantially contributed to by man’s activities and IF urgent and drastic action is required to reverse or contain its effects then, for the survival of our species, the only answer is a global government that can enforce an agenda on all countries of the world.
Monckton claims that the socialist regimes of the world have failed and this is their moribund attempt to gain control. While capitalsim has be nice for us lucky enough to be born in the developed world, there is no denying that capitalism is failing on a global scale.
The very same human characteristic that caused the downfall of communism is dictating the direction of capitalism…humans are greedy. Based on the IFs above being true (and who could know if they are) then anybody who opposes a world government that can mandate steps to prevent the disaster is unconscionably greedy. You are saying that your standard of living is more important that other’s right to live.
Before you all flame me for this, I say again that my comment is predicated on the IFs being true.
Daryl, There is a better world view than having a one world government. This better approach is where I take personal responsibility for my own actions. I minimize my use of oil products; I dig the tire out of the sand and take it off the scenic Oregon beach when I go for a walk; I choose transportation that reduces my consumption; I recycle rather than put all my waste in the garbage; etc. And, I enjoy my greater freedoms because I have less government. When we turn over the personal responsibility that God gave to individuals to a governmental authority, that’s when things go downhill.
I’ve never heard such twaddle. Man made climate change is real and an imminent severe danger. People like Monckton have helped delay the much needed action on climate change by persuading the likes of George Bush that there was doubt in the science. There is no doubt in the science and never really was.
Enev the likes of Bush accept this now.
Monckton - go away and crawl under a stone.
No doubt in the science? Huh. Where’d we get all the information and articles for this website then? Weird. Looks like a pretty big bunch of doubt to me. That you choose to dismiss the doubt (and beyond doubt, evidence to the contrary of the warmist position) doesn’t make it nonexistent.
Dan
you seem to come up with a very poor answer every time anyone questions the rubbish on this site.
I think you got all your information from a load of fraudsters and fabricators who have a vested interest in pretenting man made climate change doesn’t exist (eg Exxon Mobil) and a load of suited old men who don’t want it to exist and have always got what they wanted in the past.
Do you really believe that scientists have duped almost every world leader into believing in man made climate change? Its just not conceivable.
I would suggest that you are all choosing to align yourselves with one side of the debate or the other based on your emotional disposition - or at least certainly not on a pragmatic investigation of fact…becuase for the average Joe this is simply not possible.
Monckton’s alarmist presentation suggesting that all countries will be ceding sovereignty to a ‘new world government’ ignores the fact that most countries around the world are already parties to UN Treaties such as The Geneva Convention and the US has proven that being party to such a treaty doesn’t mean that they need to abide by it.
If we assume that climate change is a scam then one would need to identify who are the beneficiaries of such a scam. I know how difficult it is for scientists to get research dollars but firmly believe that my fellow scientists are governed by a much higher creed than simply getting dollars to play in their labs. Science has always been about the search for truth.
There have been claims that scientists have faked data in the past, most notably in my field of science, Gregor Mendel. However, the inalienable truth is that science is the search for facts and the most repugnant legacy for any scientist would be to be labeled a fraudster.
I completely dismiss Monckton’s notion that scientists are fabricating or distorting data purely in the pursuit of research grants.
In reading the draft treaty the only obvious financial beneficiaries are developing nations to whom large amounts of money will be paid for carbon debts. It is very difficult to believe that the developing world has the political or financial clout to have orchestrated such an elaborate hoax.
The obvious losers would seem to be:
The developed world who will need to pay larges sums of $ in reparation of their carbon debts.
Companies who hold IP rights over technology that will either reduce carbon or produce low carbon energy.
Countries and organisations that earn money from the use of fossil fuels.
Yes, many of the goals stated in the treaty appear to be socialist in nature. The idea that the developed world should pay such large amounts to assist the developing world is probably very difficult to swallow for diehard capitalists. However, given that the losers in this game are the countries who have the greatest input in dictating the direction of the UN, it is difficult for me to believe this could be a hoax.
Why would the countries of the world who have so much to lose from signing this treaty do so unless there was compelling scientific evidence to do so.
I note that Monckton claims climate change has been proven categorically wrong based on the research of a scientist who claims that there is no link between smoking and cancer. I note that yesterday, the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, published empiracal evidence from cancer genome sequencing that shows that a mutation will occur in smokers at a rate of about 1 mutation per 15 ciggies.
I wouldn’t discount entirely the claim that climate change is a scam based on a ridiculous claim made about a seperate matter but it is hardly the sort of track record that would prove a scientist is impartial.
One mutation for every 15 cigarettes?! That’s not even a whole pack! Cripes. So a pack a day smoker who smokes for… lets say 30 years… has 14,600 genetic mutations? And that seems more feasible to you than the notion that wisps of second hand smoke probably aren’t going to give you cancer? Okee-Dokee.
I don’t understand your point Dan.
Your body has developed hundreds of defences against cancer one of which is called apotosis or cellular suicide. Cells have the ability to detect when they aren’t functioning correctly and basically top themselves to protect the body.
Also the vast majority of these mutations are deletorious to the survival of the cell - that is they don’t cause the cell to lose growth control, they simply kill the cell.
Cancer from second hand smoke is so close to a myth that it might as well be one. The type of cancer caused by smoking is almost always small cell carcinoma of the lung.
It is very rare for non-smokers to ever get small cell carcinoma but recent studis claim that as much as 10% of lung cancer patients have never smoked indicating there are other pathways to lung cancer - both naturally occuring and as a result of inhaling other types of mutagens.
But we digress. My point was that for a scientist to claim there is no connection between smoking and cancer is equivalent to the old tale of an ostriches burying its head in the sand to avoid danger.
Also Dan - you have only made some misinformed comment about my reference to smoking and lung cancer.
You have not attempted to refute my logical analysis of what agenda could exist for climate change being a hoax.
Oh. Sorry. I was distracted by the absurdity of your statistics. The entire body of work published on GlobalClimateScam.com exposes the fraud, the flawed science and the motives. I wouldn’t think I’d have to explain it in a comment, since the whole site is devoted to explaining it.
Gee Dan
Way to defend a position. Firstly, I quote none of ‘my’ statistics. In fact, WRT climate change I quoted no statistics at all.
You are out of your league to debate the genetic causes of cancer with me that is why I made the observation that we have digressed from the actual debate this site seems to be about.
I have provided you with a logical analysis of why a scam is unlikely because the countries who would suffer most under the draft treaty are the only ones who could could get the treaty through.
Rather than responding to this, you choose to debate empiracal data collected through sequencing the genomes of many cancers. Unlike yourself, I clearly referenced the source of this data…so if you have an issue with it, perhaps you would like to take it up with The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute.
Sometimes it is best to remain quiet and be thought a fool rather than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
There is no factual evidence on your site whatsoever…I can see links to other secondary sources of information. Being a scientist I prefer to reference primary sources of data rather than opinion and heresay that you seem to be so fond of quoting as fact.
Science has proven that man-made GW is a hoax! Join me as I fill my Senators inbox and demand they stop this mad Hitler style take-over!
Hey Karl,
Guess what? I’ve got a big Dodge 4×4 with a 360 magnum V8 that gets about 10 miles to the gallon. I smoke cigarettes. I’ve got a chainsaw (two stroke might I add). It smokes like hell. I like to cut down trees with it. Just wanted to say hello Karl. Gotta get back to my burn pile. Strange people we is…………………..
Your funny! I needed a laugh!
Daryl, anyone who says “there is absolutely no doubt” about ANYTHING is a fool or a liar, and likely both. Doubt is equally proportionate to knowledge and wisdom. (if you have none of the former, you also have none of the later)
‘There is no doubt about smoking causing cancer. There is no doubt that life only begins a convenient amount of time after birth. There is no doubt that the universe began in a huge unexplainable bang from an unexplainable source of energy and matter. There is no doubt that God does not exist. There is no doubt that the world will flood in 3 years. No, 5 years, no 12 years … No doubt that the Khotec comet actually is an alien space craft. There is no doubt that the world is flat. There is no doubt that we are entering a life-destoying ice age (1971) of global cooling, no wait… now, global warming. There is NO DOUBT that the earth will run out of oil by 1992 (1973). There is no doubt that a troop surge will fail. There is no doubt that spending over a trillion dollars on political graft and corruption will restore the US and global economy, no wait, three trillion, no, Five trillion… There is no doubt that ALL SCIENTISTS AND ALL SCIENTIFIC FACTS prove global warming - except for the thousands of pages of hidden facts in e-mails and the 10’s of thousands of contrary scientists and the fact that 30 years ago it was Global cooling, and the fact that the globe has been cooling AGAIN for the past 11 years (yes, that means that the global warming scare was invented in the ’80’s and the warming only lasted until 1998.)
You may have noticed a few similarities in several of the postings above;
1) short emotional bursts and opinions
2) few if any ‘facts’
3) no suppporting sources for the few ‘facts’
4) any sources quoted turn out to be miss-quoted or from Al Gore - which is the same thing
5) above all… totally HATE-FILLED and disrespectful and devoid of any intention or capability to exchange intelligent ideas and seek to share information in search of a better understanding of what is actually true.
Instead, they are narrow-minded and hateful propagandists that spew things that they don’t understand and ignore any intelligent exchange of ideas.
This would be hugely funny in twenty years, just as the Global-Cooling Ice Age threat proved out to be by the ’90’s, except that these Marxist propagandists never give us the pleasure of admitting their continuous mistakes, or lies, as they are consistently PROVEN false. They are so dishonest and agenda-driven that they just deny all proven facts and consequences and re-craft their lies again to recruit more foolish youth with new BS. The one common denominator is that they seek to impose their World-View (religion) upon everyone else, making others pay and they gather up all the homage.
These ‘people’ are no different than the pagan temple priests that duped the masses with the threat of volcano eruptions and angering the Sun gods, just to rob the masses of their bounty and establish themselves as the empowered elite’s. ( yes - they’re thinking that being Elite is a good thing … !! Your, so vain… ) Maybe Arrogant Karl (Marx??) is offering a tip - Strange people you are … he is not even a people !!! Perhaps he is the proof of a sub-intelligent life form that was abandoned after a botched alien abortion on earth. It’s is all beginning to add up.
Friends,
Obama is not a Christian man. He’s Muslim: Hussein and Hasan have the same root: H.S. N. They’re both Muslims. Unfortunately for the U.S. he knows exactly what he’s doing. It’s all been planned long ago. If you remember, the Muslims said not very long ago, that they’ll reach the White House. Didn’t they make it happen?
Well, Obama is a dictator who is about to ruin this country. Why don’t we all protest right by the White House? Why can’t we impeach him? He’s against this country. Didn’t his wife said too: “This is the first time in my adult life that I’m proud of my country?” They’re both alike. He keeps on printing money, like there is no tomorrow. 2012, is the end of the U.S. as you know it, I’m afraid.
Peope, wake up! You can get rid of this dictator. Don’t you see what he’s doing? He’se bringing this country to its knees. Wake up and get rid of this traitor!!!
I could tell he was not a Christian from the debate with Rick Warren on tv. SO obvious even with just that. Tried to convince my some of my friends but they would not listen. I live in Washington state on the left coast! one of the most unchured states in the US. Few people around here even talk about politics. It’s so frustrating.
Lol@Kevin
Yes, many of the people here seem to be incapable of having a rational discussion. Their idea of a debate is to insult and belittle their intellectual superiors and they gain strength in numbers because most people are far to wise to even comment.
I especially like the post above that claims Obama is a Muslim based purely on his middle name.
For the record, I am pretty sure I didn’t claim that there is no doubt that smoking causes cancer…I said smoking is a huge risk factor for cancer. The nature of cancer is that it is a multistage progressive disease and many things need to go wrong before you get cancer.
Smoking increases the rate of mutations. However, mutations occur every day in everybody because their bodies produce millions of cells every day and each cell requires 3 billion base pairs to be copied….with so many new cells and so many bits of info to be copied in each cell, it is unavoidable that mutations will happen.
Fortunately the cast majority of these mutations simply kill the cell and of the mutations that don’t kill the cell, the cell itself has developed ways to no when it is being ‘naughty’ and kills itself.
To get malignant cancer a cell needs to circumvent the growth control genes, the apotosis genes and then needs to have a mutation that will secrete enzymes to break down the extra-cellular matrix which holds the cell in place.
Lord Monckton vs. 99% of the scientific establishment. Hmmm. Let’s all follow Monckton, he must be right because he’s a “politician, business consultant, policy advisor, writer, columnist, inventor and hereditary peer”. In the days when his ancestors obtained their peerage they called people like him ‘court jesters’. In Internet forums nowadays they are called ‘trolls’. If you want to take the risk that the type of world we’ve built for ourselves will somehow continue forever without reducing natural resources to our detriment, that’s fine - you and I are probably safe and, hey, shit happens, as long it doesn’t happen to me. But here’s some advice for you…don’t hitch your wagon to a nutcase. It doesn’t do much for your credibility. If you want to believe or act based on irrational notions, as least have the balls to admit that up front.
Well, there’s Lord Monckton for one, anyway. There’s also this guy with his new peer-reviewed study that says CO2 isn’t causing global warming, and then there’s Dr. Richard Lindzen whose study of radiative transfer proved that the climate models that predict warming actually have their assumptions backwards. Oh, and there’s this little tiny fringe group of 31,000+ scientists, including over 8,000 phDs.
You’ve been lead around by the nose by about 50 UN scientists, whose leaked computer code and internal email messages proved they have been engaged in fraudulent science for over a decade. Time to wake up!
Seeing as how nobody is interested in refuting my suggestion that the people who stand to lose the most are about the only ones who could carry off the man made global warming hoad, I will go a step further.
The people who stand the most to gain from creating doubt about man made climate change are among the companies with the deepest pockets in the world and their fingers into just about every pie on the world. That is, the fossil fuel companies.
I am reminded of the approach that got the tobacco companies into so much trouble….we don’t need to prove that smoking doesn’t cause cancer, we just need to sow the seeds of doubt and people will keep smoking.
Again, I make no claim as to the validity of any data…I simply take a holistic look at the issue.
We cannot destroy this planet…..anyone who knows anything about any biblical teachings knows why…..and if you dont believe this then you dont believe whats written in the bible…..and if thats the case then your in for a rude awakening anyway and the climate is the least of your worries:)
You are all idiots. Have ANY of you noticed that climate change is a near universal belief among the climate scientists who now what they’re talking about AND that all that came out of Copenhagen was”If climate change might be potentially happening sometime in the future then maybe if everyone agreed we could do some unidentified thing that wouldn’t be very powerful, but would be powerful enough to save the world. The End”
Um. No. You have been misled and aren’t paying close enough attention. The concensus among climate scientists who believe in anthropogenic global warming is that anthropogenic global warming is real. Make sense? There’s about 50 of them. The leaked emails and computer code from the Climactic Research Unit revealed them as the charletans they are. Meanwhile, over 31,000 scientists say global warming isn’t a real concern. See http://www.petitionproject.org I can’t blame you for past ignorance, since the MSM seems hell-bent on advancing the AGW agenda, but now that you’ve found this site, there is no more excuse for you. Let the scales fall from your eyes and get hip to the truth.
Their pockets will be lined with gold, Don’t fear for they shall burn in hell forever
First of all nice piece of information. But I have to read and investigate more before I have a conclusion.
>As long as the United States is free and prosperous
Prosperous with 10% unemployment? Free from what? It’s one of the most tied up nation in the world to foreign interests.
>all the socialist nations of the world hav to explain to their people why they are not as prosperous and free as the US.
China (communist) not as prosperous? Come on the US is in a severe crisis. What prosperity are you talking about?
Fiction… in your head. Get out and see the people without job and without medicine. Then talk about Cuban’s doctors.
The best in the world and their health system is free for everyone. The best universities and education and guess what:
all free. Of course they don’t have anything that you would like to have: brand new computer, etc, etc. And that may
seem unfair. Yes. But… having people pay USD 1000 for a dentist or for a simple flu… come on. Get yourself informed.
>Productive people desire freedom and success that they can find in the US
A lot of people are fleeing from USA… you’re not informed. They are not coming anymore… do you watch TV?
>Our existence as it nw is is a threat to the failing socialist orders around the world.
Socialism is no longer a threat as it’s in fact the same thing. You cannot find any threat in socialism, because
it’s still capitalism. Except you talk about Cuba. And it’s tough to live in Cuba, but they can put a mis* ile on your
sorry ass and that’s why your government wasn’t able to defeat them in the last… 40 years?
>The great lie of socialism is that it lifts people up out of poverty. In truth, it only lowers everyone else.
You can bring comfort and equity to most of the people by doing a proper job in the government.
Instead US capitalism and neoliberalism bring misery to your lives but as long as you have beer and HDTV,
who the [expletive deleted] cares about equity? Who cares about having to pay fortunes on health or education? You’re
living a dream, wake up and see your fellow americans having REAL necessities in the REAL US.
>Knock the US down, steal our wealth and freedom and the rest of the socialist nations don’t look
>so bad anymore
Nobody wants what the US has. The necessity to invade, steal and dominate. How socialist is that?
That is the real spirit behind the united states of America. That’s why everybody hates your country.
Wake up, Middle East hates you. But you keep going in an invisible war for resources.
Your predictive CPU has gone mad! Preemptive war has made America in a deep crysis. This time
you will not get out without selling your freedom to … Europe, China and the arab nations.
Next time don’t sell your shares using Neural Networks. They are ruining the economy for all the
world. Blame the US for everything, for the greedy people are ruining the world and are ruining
honest people’s life by eliminating jobs and profit.
The only one that is making profit are the multinational companies. Blame me now, but remember
my comments when everything is in ruins, ask the multinational to give health, education and
child care? They will tell you: [expletive deleted], pay me USD 100.000 per day or you can die sorry ass.
Pablo - your long rant of crazy-talk made my eyes bleed. I’m going to go plug my CPU cyberbrain back into the Matrix now. Say Hi to Lt. Data for me.
OK. I’ll help get you started. Peruse these entries for starters: http://www.globalclimatescam.com/category/corruption/page/2/
Yes Dan, I have read this study and as mentioned, I have cause for concern about Richard Lindzen’s research because he is a scientist that has made an absurd claim in the past. There is absolutely no doubt that smoking is a huge risk factor for lung cancer and for a scientist (who happens to be a smoker) to deny this represents either gross ignorance or an attempt to get his name in the newspapers.
Lindzen has shown that he is prepared to compromise his scientific integrity for notoriety and this lapse of judgement gives us all cause to question any ‘research’ he conducts.
Dayrl I doubt you think anyone at this site can think. How eletist of you. You have already lost a lot of credibility with me by your implication that you are smarter than us all and we should simply follow your superior intelligence. Such weak statements mean nothing.
Quite frankly I have had doubts about global warming all along. I would actually love to believe in warming. However, the ‘reported facts’ did not match my observations, and the the outragous calims of future desaster which have and are consistantly failed and failing greatly reduce the credibility of those who make them. A vast number of us thinkers have come to the same conclusion. The credibility of the claims of warmers is about zero.
Now add a few revelations such as climate gate which provides documentation of both illegal voliations and frad on the part of many of our best climate scientists and the credibility of the already shakey science is further damanged.
Add to that the fact raw tempature data which should be required to be released under the Freedom of Information Act. Is not being released without legal suits. This really does not inspire confidence in the science.
If the science was as solid as you claim the raw data would be rammed down the computers of those who have doubts. That data would establish the secince. Instead the raw data is being withheld and only altered forms are being made available. And yet with your brains do you see any problem with this Daryl? As a secintist do you not think it unthinkable that raw data is not being provided for critical analysis. I am sure that even you can figure out how much nonsence could be claimed by science if the raw data were all replaced with enhanced data?
All of these prove nothing but they imply much.
Howerver, unlike you I do not rely on my vastly superior intellengce to find the truth. I rely on critical thinking, checking the facts, and obervation of both the message and the mode of presentation. I disagree with your implication that most people can’t come to a reasonable understanding of what is happening. Like all elete fools you assume that we will worship at the feet of your barins and are incapable of real thinking. So thought the salve masters of the past.
I took a long look at sites of both doubters, denighers and warmers. From my point of view the information which clearly points out the weakness of the more outragous theories is on the sites of the warmers such as Michale Mann’s real climent. It stunned me the number of charts which were clearly presented in a biased format. The famus hocky stick graph as so many clear statistical flaws that any high school math student could tell you that this was not a useful souce of information. The scaliing is deceptive, is suffers from both start point and end point problems, the splicing of mismattched data sets, the cut off of the divergent data all worse than poor science.
Facts I have gleened from sites.
1. Global warming has indeed stopped. (Read the charts in the IIPC report, a number of official data bases, and any termature reports that cover 1998-2008). (Michale Man’s site addressed this, his site comfirmed that there was no warming for 10 years and went on to state that this was not significant as the trend was less than 30 year old. Of course What I found stunning is that when you look at the data I realized that the warming trend from 1971 to 1998 which is also less than 30 years whould not be considered significant according to the IPPC standards. This double standard was to me a clear indication of manipulation of information. They are glad to use the 28 year trend but are desperate to ignore the 11 year trend. Both are not siginficant. That leaves with the cooling trend from 1938 to 1970 as the last significant weather trend which is clearly not relevent.) However, you warmers are claiming not only is warming not stopped but that it is accelerating, without supporting published data of any sort this absurd claim is made by the UN, and repeated in the local news all ower the world. When Mr Lindzen asked the President for supporting data for this insane claim she responded with gibberish.
2. Climate models are missing the mark. Again from Real Climate I see Michale Man’s best claim on his projections based on his model is that it is within the margin for error. . It is clear that his model wants the weather to be much warmen. Personally I would like a little more warmth. But, projections and whisful thinking do not make science. Verifiable facts do. The Verifiable facts point to the climate models used by the UN as being substanitlly off.
3. Neither the artic or anartic are doing much. Some local melting and some local freezing. Artic low point was 2 years ago and that los was not due to global but local warming. While minor trends can be found depending on which start points and ending points you use there is no melting trend. But, perhaps if you and a large enough of warmers can go and breath on the ice and melt a bit a trend might be established.
4. Published science exisits on both side of the arguement.
5. Pelple like you are providing supporting information for those of us who beleive that unreasonable viwe points contorl the warming agenda. You while appealing to imagined authority and asking other to rely on your and only your ability to think, I see nothing in your posts which actally refute anything.
Thanks for
I know! Wonder why Minnesotans are so pissed off about the global warming scam?! We wanted to believe. We wanted so much to think that we had hope of milder winters - only to discover that we were being lied to, and no matter how much we idled our engines and burned fire wood, it wasn’t going to get any better. That pissed us off. It’s going to stay cold and they are going to tax us more, too? To Hell with that!
Gee Thindad, sorry if I hurt your sensibilities.
Yes, I generalised but based on the idiotic nature of some of the posts above the generalisation is not unfounded.
You have a crackpot above claiming Obama is Muslims simply because of his middle name. If you believe a claim like this then I am afraid to say that you are also an idiot.
You have Dan who would rather disagree with the notion that smoking presents a risk factor for cancer because that is a view held by Lizden who is the sceintist both Dan and Monckton claim categorically proved MM CC was fake.
Rather than being in such a hurry to take offence and play some intellectual snob card against me, perhaps you should have read my posts more carefully and proven that you do not belong amongst the amry of morons who have posted above.
You say, “if the science was as solid as you claim”. I make absolutely no claim as to the solidity of science supporting climate change. I question Lisden’s data because he is a guy who has shown that his scientific integrity means nothing to him.
The POV I expressed, and have still yet to have anyone refute, is that the people who seem most able to carry off such a hoax are the people who stand the most to lose from such a hoax.
Why are we even having this discussion - Coppenhagen is over and, what a surprise, there has been no new world order created.
Given Monckton’s hysteria over this issue, I would think most reasonable people would conclude that, at best, he is an alarmist without a cause. Given his other unsubstaniated claims like “Hey, I cured AIDS”, I reckon it is not out of line to think the guy is a crackpot.
If you would care to address the POV I expressed rather than misquoting me with nonsensical claims that I have made statements in support of any scientific data then I’d be happy to withdraw my claim that you are an idiot.